Mysterious Disney Documentary about UFOs

[dingodan]

...Put simply, these scientists were all geniuses and had great insights that, at the time they were unable to explain and unable to test. This was because they were pushing the boundaries of their own areas of expertise far beyond the understanding current at the time.

They didn't have the language to explain it so they do what all people of all civilisations do - they described it within the limits of their current understanding and of their culture and more often than not that involved the supernatural as a way of explaining the unknown...

...Is Mysticism.

The mysticism that they expressed elsewhere can be explained away quite simply because we now have a better understanding

...Is mysticism become science.

 

[Buzzer]

...Is Mysticism.


..Is mysticism become science.

Err...yes. That's my point. That's why I wrote it. Mysticism isn't a deeper understanding. It's the exact opposite.

 

[dingodan]

Err...yes. That's my point. Mysticism isn't a deeper understanding. It's the exact opposite.

Then we agree.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Oh but our science and engineering easily explains them. A cursory search of the internet gives ample evidence and also debunks a lot of the assumptions and speculation in that piece. Fer crissakes I can think of half a dozen cultures that could be responsibe without resorting to mysterious unknown peoples.

Please post the links as I haven't seen them. We're not talking 15 tons or 150 tons, but 1500 tons. If you can, please post a link to a modern mobile crane that could lift and position the stones as shown in the photograph.

 

[Buzzer]

Then we agree.

So why do you lot hold such faith in what has been debunked? It would be like a real scientist still name-dropping the phlogiston theory and Thompson's plum pudding model.

 

[symyjym]

Thanks for clearing that up, I've always wondered how they moved the monolith stones at Baalbek into place

There wasn't much else to do in those days so it was a great community building project. If there were supreme other world beings back then they would have used a steel structure or some other advanced material like nanotubes not stone.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

There wasn't much else to do in those days so it was a great community building project. If there were supreme other world beings back then they would have used a steel structure or some other advanced material like nanotubes not stone.

They could have built these enormous structures using smaller blocks. The Great Pyramid was constructed using 2 million 20 ton limestone blocks and some huge granite blocks for the passages and chambers. So why these 800 ton and greater blocks unless they were able to move and position them with less effort than the smaller ones? The alien theories are absurd as they would have said "why not mix some concrete and pour it into forms" My feeling is that there is a lost technology and maybe a lost civilisation here, but whatever it was, it was human.

Recently the lost civilisation Of Ur was discovered in Iraq and the huge structures at Gobekli Tepe were unearthed in Turkey dated to at least 13,000 years ago.

 

[symyjym]

They could have built these enormous structures using smaller blocks. The Great Pyramid was constructed using 2 million 20 ton limestone blocks and some huge granite blocks for the passages and chambers. So why these 800 ton and greater blocks unless they were able to move and position them with less effort than the smaller ones? The alien theories are absurd as they would have said "why not mix some concrete and pour it into forms" My feeling is that there is a lost technology and maybe a lost civilisation here, but whatever it was, it was human.

The larger blocks had to be used to create a better foundation as they are always placed at the base.

Also I think they may have rolled them into place rather than dragged them. If sections of the block were rounded along its length, like the ends and sections of the middle, it would have been easier to roll them to the destination and chisel them square when in place. Smaller large stones could just be padded out to make them round.

That's what I would have suggested if it was my problem to solve

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

The larger blocks had to be used to create a better foundation as they are always placed at the base.

Also I think they may have rolled them into place rather than dragged them. If sections of the block were rounded along its length, like the ends and sections of the middle, it would have been easier to roll them to the destination and chisel them square when in place.

That's what I would have suggested if it was my problem to solve

To try and put things in perspective, one of the average sized stones was 800 tons. That is the size of the 3 Mile Island Nuclear generator, and this is how they transported that;

The caption to go with this picture is "The Michael Baker Corporation Wins 2010 ACEC/PA Diamond Honor Award for Three Mile Island Steam Generator Transport Project"

However they weren't moving it up a hill and lifting it into place to fit perfectly on top of other such units.

 

[Nibble]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_baalbek_1.htm

Where did I say anything about mystic forces? I haven't a clue how they built it, but the largest cranes built today couldn't move these stones into position in this terrain.

They are not clumsy artifacts, crude and compromised cuts like Stonehenge. They are perfectly fitted 1,500 ton stones forming a foundation not even a huge Roman temple could encompass. Our own science and engineering today cannot explain them, let alone what their function was. It would seem some unknown culture could move these great stones, place them on top of others, in perfect fit and alignment, before the dawn of our most ancient cultures. What caused them to pass away without leaving a clue as to who they were and to what purpose they built such a stupefying platform? It's not all about little green men.

This is simply plain wrong. We do know the likely methods used in nearly all the world's megaliths and standing stones. We know enough to at least form a few solid theories.

The kind of stuff you are writing about is probably the thinking form quite some time ago. A vast amount of archaeological knowledge is reviewed and revised every few decades. Things we think we know for certain today will be revised soon enough but there I no great mystery.

There are undoubtedly many pre-historic communities we don't know about, all evidence dictates this is most likely. The existing structures are no great mystery, many are huge. They didn't use technology "ahead of their time" they used whatever technology was available. This would as I said before, likely be leverage, bearings and a lot of manpower.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

This is simply plain wrong. We do know the likely methods used in nearly all the world's megaliths and standing stones. We know enough to at least form a few solid theories.

The kind of stuff you are writing about is probably the thinking form quite some time ago. A vast amount of archaeological knowledge is reviewed and revised every few decades. Things we think we know for certain today will be revised soon enough but there I no great mystery.

There are undoubtedly many pre-historic communities we don't know about, all evidence dictates this is most likely. The existing structures are no great mystery, many are huge. They didn't use technology "ahead of their time" they used whatever technology was available. This would as I said before, likely be leverage, bearings and a lot of manpower.

You're completely missing the point here. What you are saying is completely valid for 8 ton blocks and a a pinch 80 ton blocks, but perfectly quarried 800 ton blocks, moved up an inclined rough terrain and lifted into place with amazing precision over 5000 years ago. I don't think so

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Please post the links as I haven't seen them. We're not talking 15 tons or 150 tons, but 1500 tons. If you can, please post a link to a modern mobile crane that could lift and position the stones as shown in the photograph.

Well they moved the Bell Tout lighthouse so i don't think it's beyond our ability to move a solid piece of stone. Here's a picture of a US building being moved

 

[Tom Bombadil]

You're completely missing the point here. What you are saying is completely valid for 8 ton blocks and a a pinch 80 ton blocks, but perfectly quarried 800 ton blocks, moved up an inclined rough terrain and lifted into place with amazing precision over 5000 years ago. I don't think so

Who says it was over 5000 years ago. There's no evidence to support that assertaion

 

[symyjym]

To try and put things in perspective, one of the average sized stones was 800 tons. That is the size of the 3 Mile Island Nuclear generator, and this is how they transported that;

The caption to go with this picture is "The Michael Baker Corporation Wins 2010 ACEC/PA Diamond Honor Award for Three Mile Island Steam Generator Transport Project"

However they weren't moving it up a hill and lifting it into place to fit perfectly on top of other such units.

I don't know if they did move the larger stones uphill, it could have been flat or slightly downhill? Depends on the geology, route and destination, which would have been well thought out at the time.

What I would say is that with the Three Mile Island Steam Generator Transport Project, if there was no bridge in the picture and the land at the side was a prepared slope downhill for more than a mile, if it fell off the platform it would be pretty hard to stop it rolling for that mile.
l

 

[Nibble]

You're completely missing the point here. What you are saying is completely valid for 8 ton blocks and a a pinch 80 ton blocks, but perfectly quarried 800 ton blocks, moved up an inclined rough terrain and lifted into place with amazing precision over 5000 years ago. I don't think so

I am missing something. What do you mean you don't think so? Are you saying it didn't happen? These structures are there. You can see them, so clearly it happened somehow. If you discount other worldy forces you're left with the answer. Engineering.

Okay. How do you think they did it? Serious question, how do you reckon it was done?

I have a very keen interest in ancient structures, so much so that I own a trust which buys ancient stone circles and pre-historical monuments and preserves them form further dis-repair. I don't say this to try and "trump" you I say it as, In the course of carrying out this work I have met a fair few archaeologists from across the globe and while opinions vary on a lot of cases, the one pretty much universal belief is that whomever dressed the stones and transported them to their final location they used conventional methods for the time period, just on a massive scale.

This theory has been proven on computer models and on smaller scale practical experiments. Anyone in that field is after likely facts, they tend to leave the blown minds to laymen.

I agree with you that it is a marvellous thing to imagine, it truly boggles the brain but there is no great mystery to these things. It's a combination of imagination, pride, engineering and man power. No great mystery.

If you were to sit don and think of a way to move such things, chances are you would come up with something similar rto what they used. Our brains are exactly the same as they were 5000 years ago, we solve problems in the same way.

To answer your question about why they didn't make smaller stones and transport them, if and it is only an if, they used the object's momentum, the larger the object the easier it is to move. If you can nail moving them, you have made your job a lot, lot less time consuming as you don't need to do much building when you get to the site.

 

[beorhthelm]

have to say, invoking aliens to explain how the structures discussed were built is about the same saying it was magic. that's not to dismiss the possibility, but the absence of any evidence to show how something was done shouldn't be used to claim there is evidence of advanced extra terrestrial technology.

 

[Nibble]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_baalbek_1.htm

Where did I say anything about mystic forces? I haven't a clue how they built it, but the largest cranes built today couldn't move these stones into position in this terrain.

They are not clumsy artifacts, crude and compromised cuts like Stonehenge. They are perfectly fitted 1,500 ton stones forming a foundation not even a huge Roman temple could encompass. Our own science and engineering today cannot explain them, let alone what their function was. It would seem some unknown culture could move these great stones, place them on top of others, in perfect fit and alignment, before the dawn of our most ancient cultures. What caused them to pass away without leaving a clue as to who they were and to what purpose they built such a stupefying platform? It's not all about little green men.

They did leave clues, MASSIVE ones, that tell us they were ****ing amazing engineers with a lot of time on their hands.

To answer the second point, what would modern man build such a huge building for? It's usually worship based, status related or parliamentary. It will likely be one of those options.

 

[Nibble]

Pumapanku was put there 12,800 feet, which is above the tree line , with stones weighing 130 tons and cut with laser precision by people using stone tools and before the WHEEL was invented...and they used ball bearings did they?

The earliest stones on the site, the most impressive by far, are built into the walls by much later incas who were open about the fact that it was up there long before them.

I'm not saying it wasn't put there by people..it undoubtedly was, but people with a knowledge of techniques waaaay before their time according to archaeologists.

Wow, can you PM me the date for the invention of the wheel please? I only ask because it has eluded respected scholars, historians and archaeologists for millennia and I'd be owed a few pints if I could let them know. Ta.

 

[beorhthelm]

i'm also thinking about the above picture of the 3 Mile reactor being moved. with out the photographic evidence, if you were to see the 800 ton item in resting place you would have clue how it got there. you might guess they used some dolly arrangement, but wouldn't be able to workout how it navigated the narrow roads and insufficiently strong bridges along the route. its easy when you have a photo and people around to tell you. in 1000 years people might think that was magic.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I am missing something. What do you mean you don't think so? Are you saying it didn't happen? These structures are there. You can see them, so clearly it happened somehow. If you discount other worldy forces you're left with the answer. Engineering.

Okay. How do you think they did it? Serious question, how do you reckon it was done?

I have a very keen interest in ancient structures, so much so that I own a trust which buys ancient stone circles and pre-historical monuments and preserves them form further dis-repair. I don't say this to try and "trump" you I say it as, In the course of carrying out this work I have met a fair few archaeologists from across the globe and while opinions vary on a lot of cases, the one pretty much universal belief is that whomever dressed the stones and transported them to their final location they used conventional methods for the time period, just on a massive scale.

This theory has been proven on computer models and on smaller scale practical experiments. Anyone in that field is after likely facts, they tend to leave the blown minds to laymen.

I agree with you that it is a marvellous thing to imagine, it truly boggles the brain but there is no great mystery to these things. It's a combination of imagination, pride, engineering and man power. No great mystery.

If you were to sit don and think of a way to move such things, chances are you would come up with something similar rto what they used. Our brains are exactly the same as they were 5000 years ago, we solve problems in the same way.

To answer your question about why they didn't make smaller stones and transport them, if and it is only an if, they used the object's momentum, the larger the object the easier it is to move. If you can nail moving them, you have made your job a lot, lot less time consuming as you don't need to do much building when you get to the site.

I don't want to get in an argument over this as I too have a great interest in archaeology and am not and never have been a CP, but the fact is that our ancient predecessors possessed technologies that have been lost over the ages. Forget the moving of massive blocks of stone to sites over 5000 years ago that would daunt any construction company in existence today. I was only singling out Baalbek where the average size 800 ton block weighed as much as 12,500 men. If you can give me a reasoned explanation of the method and logistics of lifting one of these blocks and placing it perfectly into a wall, and then lifting further, similarly massive blocks on top of it, I would be very interested.

The Egyptian tri-lobed disk. Egyptologists reckon it could be an incense burner, but this was carved from a single piece of schist. There were not just a few of these. Apparently there were thousands found in and around the Step pyramid

Stoneware such as this has not been found from any later era in Egyptian history - it seems that the skills necessary were lost

Other pieces turned out of granite, porphory or basalt are fully hollowed with narrow undercut flared openings, and some even have long necks. Since we have yet to reproduce such pieces it is safe to say that the techniques or machinery they employed to produce these bowls has yet to be replicated.

No aliens, no mystics, just very ancient technologies that we can make a guess at but are yet to replicate.