Mother of the Year ?

[Commander]

It's not as if they can crawl around and find a dealer is it.

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I've never understood why people think of this as being born a junkie. Babies have no perception of what drugs are, so from their point of view they are just suffering from an illness. It's not as if they can crawl around and find a dealer is it. The dependancy will pass and they will be none the wiser.

I wasn't implying otherwise, mate. It's a dependency, like you say, And they can be weaned off it. Piss-poor introduction to the world by the one person in the world who's supposed to care about you and not throw you off a balcony tho aye?.

 

[bhaexpress]

No, I was rather hoping that it was the rest of you who were joking with your 'Give the bitch what she deserves' attitudes.

I repeat, in a case like this what good does it do anybody; the woman, the boy, society, to send an inadequate, unfortunate woman to prison for NINE YEARS! Surely we should be looking at helping her rebuild her life not just in making sure she's punished some more?

I have to agree here, anybody who's been near or around somebody with an addiction would tell you that in those circumstances logic and common sense go elsewhere as long as the addicted party can get their fix be it drink, drugs, gambling or anything else for that matter. The difference between right and wrong goes missing.

Putting this woman in prison won't cure her it'll just stop her hurting other people. Believe me she'll soon get drugs inside.

 

[Starry]

she just got 9 years

Shame they won't rip her reproductive organs from her while she is awake.

 

[Brovion]

Hang on, this woman gave her kid heroin. You do understand that?

If he had died, would you still say she should be helped to rebuid her life?

The answer to your first point - yes of course, I can read.

The second point - yes, absolutely. I certainly don't subscribe to the view that all wrongdoers are merely misunderstood victims of capitalist society, but neither can I see the merit in a blanket "She done bad, lock her up" approach. Absolutely no one is a winner in this case and all the anger being directed at the failed mother should be directed at the failure of social services to protect them both. Why they failed of course is another argument entirely.

 

[Starry]

Surely we should be looking at helping her rebuild her life not just in making sure she's punished some more?

Edit. I really should avoid topics like this.

 

[Commander]

The answer to your first point - yes of course, I can read.

The second point - yes, absolutely. I certainly don't subscribe to the view that all wrongdoers are merely misunderstood victims of capitalist society, but neither can I see the merit in a blanket "She done bad, lock her up" approach. Absolutely no one is a winner in this case and all the anger being directed at the failed mother should be directed at the failure of social services to protect them both. Why they failed of course is another argument entirely.

So what about if a heroin addict stabbed and killled your mum to steal her purse? Is that social services fault? Should they then be helped to rebuild their life, while you are left with the ruins of yours?

 

[Commander]

Edit. I really should avoid topics like this.

Well I agree with you, Starry.

 

[bhaexpress]

Edit. I really should avoid topics like this.

Why ?

 

[Commander]

Why ?

Leave it mate.

 

[Starry]

Why ?

Because I was a good mum to my baby girl and I buried her, I don't exactly have much sympathy for people, addicts or otherwise who abuse their children then get all the "we should help them rebuild their lives" crap and even less for those who excuse their behaviour and tell us to direct our anger at social service departments and away from the 'failed parents'.

 

[Brovion]

So what about if a heroin addict stabbed and killled your mum to steal her purse? Is that social services fault? Should they then be helped to rebuild their life, while you are left with the ruins of yours?

Why are you trying to change the debate? There is no mention of armed robbery in the case report. If I found out that she'd been murdering people in the street and nicking their money then, yes, that would be a different set of circumstances.

But, this case ISN'T about robbery and murder, it's about a family tragedy. And like I said in my last post I don't believe in a blanket approach, you should judge each case on its merits. Sometimes prison is justified as both a deterrent and/or a punishment, but I don't think either applies in this case.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Because I was a good mum to my baby girl and I buried her, I don't exactly have much sympathy for people, addicts or otherwise who abuse their children then get all the "we should help them rebuild their lives" crap and even less for those who excuse their behaviour and tell us to direct our anger at social service departments and away from the 'failed parents'.

Reckon it would take a non-parent to disagree with you there Starry mate. And you have more right than the vast majority of us on here to hold that opinion.

Little kids need protecting. Because little kids are vulnerable. Screw the personal f***-ups of the parents. They have ZERO right to inflict their personal f***-ups on their vulnerable little kids, who are people too. Like they say, you need a licence to keep a dog but...

 

[Commander]

Why are you trying to change the debate? There is no mention of armed robbery in the case report. If I found out that she'd been murdering people in the street and nicking their money then, yes, that would be a different set of circumstances.

But, this case ISN'T about robbery and murder, it's about a family tragedy. And like I said in my last post I don't believe in a blanket approach, you should judge each case on its merits. Sometimes prison is justified as both a deterrent and/or a punishment, but I don't think either applies in this case.

This woman gave her kid heroin.

Your argument seems to be based on the fact that this 'unfortunate woman' has been failed by society, is at rock bottom and should be helped rather than punished. My point was, that if someone else who has been failed by society and is at rock bottom, killed someone close to you then would you want them to go to prison?

As someone said earlier, "when addicted to this drug, life becomes about your next fix, that's all that matters. She probably knew what she was doing was bad, but it was the easy option, rather than taking care of herself and her son."

So, if this is the case (which it is), then she could have feasibly mugged and stabbed someone to get money for her habit, just as she gave her son heroin because she was not in touch with reality anymore. If she had, why should she be treated differently to how she would have been if her son had died from her giving him this drug?

Sorry, but I just cannot understand your viewpoint on this. I'm all for second chances and helping people, but this woman gave her kid heroin. Sick.

 

[Commander]

Reckon it would take a non-parent to agree with you there Starry mate. And you have more right than the vast majority of us on here to hold that opinion.

Little kids need protecting. Because little kids are vulnerable. Screw the personal f***-ups of the parents. They have ZERO right to inflict their personal f***-ups on their vulnerable little kids, who are people too. Like they say, you need a licence to keep a dog but...

Did you mean disagree?

 

[bhaexpress]

I don't think anybody is condoning what this woman did but keeping her banged up won't change anything. She'll still be able to get drugs.

Prevention is better than cure. Plenty of people do terrible things to children but don't get nine years though. Take your average peodophile.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Did you mean disagree?

Yes

 

[Commander]

Prevention is better than cure. Plenty of people do terrible things to children but don't get nine years though. Take your average peodophile.

Should they be spared prison and helped to rebuild their lives? Or should they be locked away where they cant do any kids any harm?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Should they be spared prison and helped to rebuild their lives? Or should they be locked away where they cant do any kids any harm?

Prison should at least clean 'em up. Even a third of the nine years should be long enough to wean the girl off even methadone - bent screws notwithstanding

 

[Easy 10]

I don't think anybody is condoning what this woman did but keeping her banged up won't change anything. She'll still be able to get drugs.

Maybe so, but she won't be able to administer them to her 12 year old kid any more.