Mother of 8 kids can't survive on £2,000 a month benefits

[El Presidente]

Do you not think that this is just that shade simplistic and contrived to suit your particular standpoint? When wealthier people get caught, I can't honestly say that I have heard anyone defending them - they deserve the same censure as anyone else. Indeed, my experience is exactly the opposite - typical that "the rich" get away with it ,as well as "the poor", and middle England ends up paying, because they don't have the fancy lawyers to help them wriggle out of it, or the lack of social conscience typical of benefit chasers.

Do you therefore think it's a bit strange that David Cameron, who was so vocal in criticising Jimmy Carr, was equally vocal in defending Gary Barlow's OBE after GB's tax dodging antics were revealed.

 

[Buzzer]

The benefits system is well and truly ****ed I would agree. But to fix it you need to offer a decent alternative. Maybe the changes in the employment system have some part to play in his phenomenon too.

Why must we offer an alternative? The solution is already there, the ones our grandparents took. Better offers of employment won't fix a problem where a single mother has 8 kids.

 

[BadFish]

Why must we offer an alternative? The solution is already there, the ones our grandparents took. Better offers of employment won't fix a problem where a single mother has 8 kids.

My grandfather had the same career all his working life, that kind of job security is a rarity these days.

Anyway, sleep beckons.

 

[Notters]

Without "Rich People" there would be a lot less money to go to the welfare System...The top 1% of earners pay 30% of income Tax and the top 25% pay 75% plus they are bound to spend the most contributing most to VAT etc etc..they probably cost nothing in school or NHS costs.....So I say get of their back the more Rich people there are the more money there is for us!!!!

Just think another 1% of top earners and chancellor would have 30% increase in his budget......Push top to hard and they move abroad and budget slashed by 30%...

I didn't realise you were on NSC Mr Osborne!

 

[Hampster Gull]

A problem that is two generations old at most will take many generations to fix? Maybe because your definition of society is one of victim culture where no-one takes personal responsibility. I don't have strong opinions one way or the other on this woman and her 8 kids but if what you say is true and we need to spend all that time and resources trying to convince people to work towards a life of personal self-sufficiency, then it's clearly the benefits system that is the root cause of the problem. The fact that it's a very recent phenomenon also backs this view up. Our grandparents never had this culture but they never had access to all these benefits.

It therefore seems to me that all these arguments about tax-avoiding high earners and corporations has sod all to do with this particular issue and is just deflecting from the issue at hand - that the benefits system is well and truly f*cked.

Good post

 

[Diablo]

I didn't realise you were on NSC Mr Osborne!

you can call me George

 

[El Presidente]

you can call me George

Gideon to your close friends of course!

 

[Ernest]

Gideon to your close friends of course!

Not what they called him in the Bullingdon Club of course, didn't you call him OIK ?

 

[Hastings gull]

Do you therefore think it's a bit strange that David Cameron, who was so vocal in criticising Jimmy Carr, was equally vocal in defending Gary Barlow's OBE after GB's tax dodging antics were revealed.

To be totally frank with you, I didn't know of either incident, but am not sure what this has got to do with my point about Middle England feeling they get stung disproportionately.

 

[El Presidente]

To be totally frank with you, I didn't know of either incident, but am not sure what this has got to do with my point about Middle England feeling they get stung disproportionately.

I'm not disagreeing.

According to the IFS report on the budget middle income earners have borne the brunt of the £47 billion of tax rises hidden in last week's budget

 

[southstandandy]

How on earth did parents in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's ever cope?

Back then Tax credits were but a pipe dream!

 

[Hastings gull]

I'm not disagreeing.

According to the IFS report on the budget middle income earners have borne the brunt of the £47 billion of tax rises hidden in last week's budget

Thanks. I don't quite understand this -not you, but my inability to understand economics - the budget was last week and yet it says M E has borne the brunt of £47 billion - should this not read "will have borne" or "will bear"

 

[Hastings gull]

How on earth did parents in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's ever cope?

Back then Tax credits were but a pipe dream!

Yes, an interesting question. If I think of the 60s, there was great shame attached to divorce or separation, rightly or wrongly, and so far fewer single parents needed to fall back on benefits, as far fewer husbands simply upped sticks and left. I am sure that there was child Benefit early on in the Welfare State, and if my memory serves me right, was only paid to the mother! The further back you go, the less the expectation and so people made do with far less.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Why must we offer an alternative? The solution is already there, the ones our grandparents took. Better offers of employment won't fix a problem where a single mother has 8 kids.

My grandmother was one of 11 kids.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Give the £2,000 a month in the form of vouchers that can't be used for booze or fags or junk food. Pretty sure the mum and 8 kids will survive fairly comfortably and more healthily.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Yes, an interesting question. If I think of the 60s, there was great shame attached to divorce or separation, rightly or wrongly, and so far fewer single parents needed to fall back on benefits, as far fewer husbands simply upped sticks and left. I am sure that there was child Benefit early on in the Welfare State, and if my memory serves me right, was only paid to the mother! The further back you go, the less the expectation and so people made do with far less.

There was an additional personal allowance for each child attached to the father's tax code; child benefit was introduced by the Heath government (I think) and was initially payable to the mother only via the post office. A rationale for this change was to try to ensure that the money was spent on the children's upbringing etc rather than it being "retained" by the father. Btw my mother had no knowledge of this child allowance, how much my father earned; when he died, and she was paid 50% of his occupational pension, she had considerably more money to spend after the same fixed monthly outgoings than when he was alive.
Both of my maternal grandparents had more than six siblings as did my father's father who also had six children, albeit with a variety of women.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Both of my maternal grandparents had more than six siblings as did my father's father who also had six children, albeit with a variety of women.

Average family sizes were much bigger in past decades. A quick google suggests that they have halved from 3.5 to 1.7 over the past 40 years.

 

[drew]

Give the £2,000 a month in the form of vouchers that can't be used for booze or fags or junk food. Pretty sure the mum and 8 kids will survive fairly comfortably and more healthily.

Haven't read the whole thread but is there evidence that she spunks it all on fags and booze then?

 

[Algernon]

As we know, should the UK rid itself of all benefit scroungers, the upcoming 47bn of tax raises won't be needed and the Govt will let us all keep that money.

 

[drew]

Without "Rich People" there would be a lot less money to go to the welfare System...The top 1% of earners pay 30% of income Tax and the top 25% pay 75% plus they are bound to spend the most contributing most to VAT etc etc..they probably cost nothing in school or NHS costs.....So I say get of their back the more Rich people there are the more money there is for us!!!!

Just think another 1% of top earners and chancellor would have 30% increase in his budget......Push top to hard and they move abroad and budget slashed by 30%...

Bit of a stupid argument because you could equally argue that without the workers then the rich wouldn't get rich! Employers/entrepreneurs need employees just as much as the other way around.