[Albion] Mohammed Kudus **Signed For West Ham 27/08**

[spence]

God does this spotty nerd shut up.

Okay, I'm going to get roundly mocked for what I'm about to say, and I'll probably deserve it. But I'm gonna say it anyway, just on the off chance I'm right and then I can say "I told you so" at some point in the future.

So, I totally understand the sentiment behind the feeling that Kudus can't replace Caicedo because he's an AM rather than a DM. That was my thinking too.

But I've watched and re-watched the highlight reel that someone posted a couple of pages back, and something struck me. Once he's in possession of the ball, it seems to be very hard to get it off him. Remind you of anyone? And then, I noticed that in a lot of the clips in the highlight reel, he's actually getting the ball from relatively deep positions and bringing it forward. He does so with powerful running rather than the pinpoint passing of Caicedo, but with a net effect that's very similar: defence turns into attack in the blink of an eye.

So, what I'm getting at is this: Is it really not possible that Starlizard's data on Kudus shows that he might be a better DM than any of us think - at least, with style of football we play? Taken as a unit, would Kudus + 1 other from Gilmour, Alzate, Milner, etc. offer us something broadly similar to what we were getting from Caicedo + Mac?

I have absolutely no idea about his ability as i dont watch continental football. I want to sign him on the basis that the fee being paid trumps the Nigels record fee. That to me makes us the bigger club. Let's get this done.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Okay, I'm going to get roundly mocked for what I'm about to say, and I'll probably deserve it. But I'm gonna say it anyway, just on the off chance I'm right and then I can say "I told you so" at some point in the future.

So, I totally understand the sentiment behind the feeling that Kudus can't replace Caicedo because he's an AM rather than a DM. That was my thinking too.

But I've watched and re-watched the highlight reel that someone posted a couple of pages back, and something struck me. Once he's in possession of the ball, it seems to be very hard to get it off him. Remind you of anyone? And then, I noticed that in a lot of the clips in the highlight reel, he's actually getting the ball from relatively deep positions and bringing it forward. He does so with powerful running rather than the pinpoint passing of Caicedo, but with a net effect that's very similar: defence turns into attack in the blink of an eye.

So, what I'm getting at is this: Is it really not possible that Starlizard's data on Kudus shows that he might be a better DM than any of us think - at least, with the style of football we play? Taken as a unit, would Kudus + 1 other from Gilmour, Alzate, Milner, etc. offer us something broadly similar to what we were getting from Caicedo + Mac?

You’re spot on. They actually have very similar qualities even if they’ve usually played different poisitions in their careers so far.

 

[The Fits]

The starlizardsupacomputa won't be a static thing. Our analysts will have worked out the key datasets for a player playing under RDZ. I suspect Kudus was flagged up very early and RDZ, who we now know trusts the system, has gone 'holy moly yes please '.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Okay, I'm going to get roundly mocked for what I'm about to say, and I'll probably deserve it. But I'm gonna say it anyway, just on the off chance I'm right and then I can say "I told you so" at some point in the future.

So, I totally understand the sentiment behind the feeling that Kudus can't replace Caicedo because he's an AM rather than a DM. That was my thinking too.

But I've watched and re-watched the highlight reel that someone posted a couple of pages back, and something struck me. Once he's in possession of the ball, it seems to be very hard to get it off him. Remind you of anyone? And then, I noticed that in a lot of the clips in the highlight reel, he's actually getting the ball from relatively deep positions and bringing it forward. He does so with powerful running rather than the pinpoint passing of Caicedo, but with a net effect that's very similar: defence turns into attack in the blink of an eye.

So, what I'm getting at is this: Is it really not possible that Starlizard's data on Kudus shows that he might be a better DM than any of us think - at least, with the style of football we play? Taken as a unit, would Kudus + 1 other from Gilmour, Alzate, Milner, etc. offer us something broadly similar to what we were getting from Caicedo + Mac?

This video shows he can tackle, but I feel De Zerbi would rather use him as a box to box type midfielder, rather than an out and out defensive midfielder.



Or hopefully we can sign him and Koopmeiners for some serious strength in depth?

 

[Justice]

Timber looked a class player for Arsenal if you are going to sign from the Dutch league it has to be from Ajax

 

[dwayne]

Okay, I'm going to get roundly mocked for what I'm about to say, and I'll probably deserve it. But I'm gonna say it anyway, just on the off chance I'm right and then I can say "I told you so" at some point in the future.

So, I totally understand the sentiment behind the feeling that Kudus can't replace Caicedo because he's an AM rather than a DM. That was my thinking too.

But I've watched and re-watched the highlight reel that someone posted a couple of pages back, and something struck me. Once he's in possession of the ball, it seems to be very hard to get it off him. Remind you of anyone? And then, I noticed that in a lot of the clips in the highlight reel, he's actually getting the ball from relatively deep positions and bringing it forward. He does so with powerful running rather than the pinpoint passing of Caicedo, but with a net effect that's very similar: defence turns into attack in the blink of an eye.

So, what I'm getting at is this: Is it really not possible that Starlizard's data on Kudus shows that he might be a better DM than any of us think - at least, with the style of football we play? Taken as a unit, would Kudus + 1 other from Gilmour, Alzate, Milner, etc. offer us something broadly similar to what we were getting from Caicedo + Mac?

Spot on !

Not to say I told everyone so

 

[dwayne]

Timber looked a class player for Arsenal if you are going to sign from the Dutch league it has to be from Ajax

Hmmm not sure about that. Lots of failures and I'm not convinced about timber yet.

Ajax sold Van Der beek , ziyech , de ligt , Sanchez , Antony , klassen for big bucks and all have failed. Some spectacularly.

On the flip side, Martinez and de Jong have done well although the latter has been pretty hit and miss.

 

[dazzer6666]

The whole assumption running through this thread is that we simply have to replace MC with a like-for-like player or we’re screwed, when the reality is how we play will evolve along with whoever we sign. We don’t necessarily need a ‘direct’ replacement. @JetsetJimbo is correct.

 

[Springal]

They’ve spent what 700m or something so far, I don’t think another 100m will make much difference.

It seems pretty obvious the Kudus deal was put on hold for if/when Moises leaves, it was rumoured over a month ago we’d agreed a price etc the all went quiet as it appeared Moises was staying, now he’s not in the squad for our final friendly and Kudus has agreed terms (allegedly)

Could be a case of 1+1 but for me it looks like an obvious connection.

That’s my read on it - the timing was to coincidental

 

[phoenix]

Maybe they’ve agreed to step aside in this deal if we agree to sell them Moises.

It’s pretty obvious Moises is off now so we are spending a bit before it’s made official, not making the same mistake as West Ham who got that 105m and now can’t sign anyone without getting ripped off.

Why would we do that ? Maybe if we didn't step aside we could keep our player Moises.

Edit: All ready covered.

 

[The Wizard]

The whole assumption running through this thread is that we simply have to replace MC with a like-for-like player or we’re screwed, when the reality is how we play will evolve along with whoever we sign. We don’t necessarily need a ‘direct’ replacement. @JetsetJimbo is correct.

I’m sorry but the way we play we do need a direct replacement, we will have lost our two best midfielders and replaced them with one in Dahoud, who has a questionable injury record and although he has looked good so far has a lot to live up to.

Watch the highlights of us playing out from the back, Caicedo is world class as taking the ball in small gaps and turning out with it, with the way we play if we don’t replace that loss and Mac’s all round play we will have gone backwards significantly.

 

[The Wizard]

Why would we do that ? Maybe if we didn't step aside we could keep our player Moises.

Because Moises has a clear asking price which Chelsea know - Could be a case if we will sell Moises to you for 90m+ some add ons but we want to replace him with Kudus, the player might have been hesitant to agree terms if Chelsea were involved.

RDZ said last week we know who we want if he leaves, this can’t be a coincidence in timing.

 

[dazzer6666]

I’m sorry but the way we play we do need a direct replacement, we will have lost our two best midfielders and replaced them with one in Dahoud, who has a questionable injury record and although he has looked good so far has a lot to live up to.

Watch the highlights of us playing out from the back, Caicedo is world class as taking the ball in small gaps and turning out with it, with the way we play if we don’t replace that loss and Mac’s all round play we will have gone backwards significantly.

Don’t agree. We’ll see.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I’m sorry but the way we play we do need a direct replacement, we will have lost our two best midfielders and replaced them with one in Dahoud, who has a questionable injury record and although he has looked good so far has a lot to live up to.

Watch the highlights of us playing out from the back, Caicedo is world class as taking the ball in small gaps and turning out with it, with the way we play if we don’t replace that loss and Mac’s all round play we will have gone backwards significantly.

That’s the point @JetsetJimbo is making, Kudus is really good at receiving the ball in small gaps and turning with it, it’s probably his best skill.

He might not be the replacement and we may get someone else but he’s got comparable qualities.

 

[Justice]

The payment terms and how/when it’s paid to us and how it effects FFP are two different things. £80m or £100m as far as FFP is concerned is either £16m or £20m a year on the accounts over the 5 years.

If TB wants the £100m now in one lump sum or over the next 3 seasons it doesn’t make any difference to FFP.

Without champions league money I’ve no idea how they can keep spending seems ridiculous to me. If they miss out again it would be hilarious.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Hmmm not sure about that. Lots of failures and I'm not convinced about timber yet.

Ajax sold Van Der beek , ziyech , de ligt , Sanchez , Antony , klassen for big bucks and all have failed. Some spectacularly.

On the flip side, Martinez and de Jong have done well although the latter has been pretty hit and miss.

That Joel Veltman hasn't done too bad either.

 

[dwayne]

That’s the point @JetsetJimbo is making, Kudus is really good at receiving the ball in small gaps and turning with it, it’s probably his best skill.

He might not be the replacement and we may get someone else but he’s got comparable qualities.

Kudus+Adams would have been optimal replacement. Chelsea have scuppered the latter after attempting to scupper the former.

 

[macbeth]

The whole assumption running through this thread is that we simply have to replace MC with a like-for-like player or we’re screwed, when the reality is how we play will evolve along with whoever we sign. We don’t necessarily need a ‘direct’ replacement. @JetsetJimbo is correct.

perhaps not like for like, but we do need someone who will match caicedo’s defensive output. and I think Kudus would be wasted there. watched him with ghana at the world cup, looked very average playing deeper in midfield, but was utterly electric once moved forward. small sample size, admittedly, but i can see him being further forward to really help us in transition.

issue we have without caicedo is that there isn’t anyone with strength and good defensive ability to cover the back 4, not that caicedo screens the back four like a typical six, but he’s that good that he basically does the same job. that is a requirement regardless of how RDZ might change things ups this season. we saw in the everton and newcastle games what happens when we don’t have enough steel in midfield, dahoud and gilmour are classy players but both a bit lightweight to play that role. adams is a good player too, but far too injury prone for me, if he’s our replacement for caicedo there will be quite a few games where we will have next to no defensive presence at the base of midfield. not something that can be easily worked around imo.

 

[dwayne]

That Joel Veltman hasn't done too bad either.

True I was purely referencing big money players.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

True I was purely referencing big money players.

Yes, one of the best bargain buys of the last few years.