Milliband about to get torn a new one by Paxman on C4 now

[Herr Tubthumper]

So you don't know one.

Germany FAILS the 'and doesn't involve party lists of cronies and toadies?'

Any other suggestions?

Sorry, I didn't realise your question was rhetorical.

You gave a list of ideals, a list of ideals which cannot all be totally achieved as one will always impede another. Therefore I suggested a balance which is currently in operation. If you want to totally achieve all of your aims you'll be disappointed as I believe it's impossible to have 100% PR and 100% constituency based MPs.

 

[Hampster Gull]

like wise if they are doing a piss poor job labour should romp home this time.

in fact if they are the party for the working man it should be a landslide.

And as you and i know they are not really the party for the working man. They are the party for those who don't want to work, those who have little ambition. The working man ends up worse off under Labour

 

[Hampster Gull]

I believe it's impossible to have 100% PR and 100% constituency based MPs.

What you say is 100% correct.

And i believe Germay has a more representative parliamentary system than we do.

Only those whose vested interests are hurt by move off our system, or who don't get it, would argue otherwise

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So you don't know one.

Germany FAILS the 'and doesn't involve party lists of cronies and toadies?'

Any other suggestions?

Just out of interest what is your reasoning for wanting constituency MPs so strongly?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What you say is 100% correct.

And i believe Germay has a more representative parliamentary system than we do.

Only those whose vested interests are hurt by move off our system, or who don't get it, would argue otherwise

I definitely think it's time for a change to PR. It's a real shame it got screwed up last time.

 

[Soulman]

And as you and i know they are not really the party for the working man. They are the party for those who don't want to work, those who have little ambition. The working man ends up worse off under Labour

Spot on. I have worked under two Labour and two Conservative terms and Labour has turned out worse both times, as a working class chap i am annoyed that Labour are not the party for the working man.

 

[dazzer6666]

Spot on. I have worked under two Labour and two Conservative terms and Labour has turned out worse both times, as a working class chap i am annoyed that Labour are not the party for the working man.

They were until Tony B Liar brought in 'new labour' ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Spot on. I have worked under two Labour and two Conservative terms and Labour has turned out worse both times, as a working class chap i am annoyed that Labour are not the party for the working man.

I am also a working class chap and I do feel they look out for me. Opinions eh?

 

[Soulman]

I am also a working class chap and I do feel they look out for me. Opinions eh?

Yep, different outlooks i suppose.
I have to ask though HT, how do Labour look out for you living in Germany?. Not having a pop, just intrigued.

 

[Soulman]

They were until Tony B Liar brought in 'new labour' ?

Yep, unfortunately that was the last time i voted for Labour, vowed never again, i was ashamed of them.

 

[Titanic]

Just out of interest what is your reasoning for wanting constituency MPs so strongly?

it's the 'and doesn't involve party lists of cronies and toadies?' that is most important to me.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yep, different outlooks i suppose.
I have to ask though HT, how do Labour look out for you living in Germany?. Not having a pop, just intrigued.

Fair question. I've said before that no party has really affected me personally as I have, very thankfully, always remained in work and don't have an expensive life-style or any dependants. I'm white, very healthy and male so everything is in my favour. I vote more for the people around me and the nation as a whole. In this sense they look out for me but not directly.

 

[drew]

And as you and i know they are not really the party for the working man. They are the party for those who don't want to work, those who have little ambition. The working man ends up worse off under Labour

But do you think the only other party likely to win, ie the Tories, are better for the working man? If so, in which way are they better?

 

[Hampster Gull]

But do you think the only other party likely to win, ie the Tories, are better for the working man? If so, in which way are they better?

No party is great, and the tories dont break that rule. But they will manage the economy much better which is to the benefit of all. They also better support business that create jobs jobs and wealth.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No party is great, and the tories dont break that rule. But they will manage the economy much better which is to the benefit of all. They also better support business that create jobs jobs and wealth.

It's the "benefit of all" bit I don't agree with you on. The working class, public sector workers and especially the youth are not seeing any of the benefits of the recent alleged up-turn in the economy. They are continually shafted by the Tories.

 

[Hampster Gull]

It's the "benefit of all" bit I don't agree with you on. The working class, public sector workers and especially the youth are not seeing any of the benefits of the recent alleged up-turn in the economy. They are continually shafted by the Tories.

I think we live far more prosperously than our grandparents due to economic growth including the working class. The engine of that is the private sector, the public sector doesnt create wealth. It has a critical role to play but Is bloated and some of the people employed there would add more elsewhere. The youth have suffered in this crisis, i agree, and we need to do far more

 

[Soulman]

Fair question. I've said before that no party has really affected me personally as I have, very thankfully, always remained in work and don't have an expensive life-style or any dependants. I'm white, very healthy and male so everything is in my favour. I vote more for the people around me and the nation as a whole. In this sense they look out for me but not directly.

Fair play for answering, so really whoever gets in will not affect you "personally" the same as another who is very vociferous on here. I'm just intrigued why you are so concerned. Fair play though, nearly 300 pages championing a party from the fatherland. Do you support a similar party in Germany.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fair play for answering, so really whoever gets in will not affect you "personally" the same as another who is very vociferous on here. I'm just intrigued why you are so concerned. Fair play though, nearly 300 pages championing a party from the fatherland. Do you support a similar party in Germany.

The UK is where I was born and where I was raised. It's where my family and a lot of friends live. It will always be part of me and I therefore want what is best for it and want it to be fairer. I do care about it, do hugely admire some elements of it, although at times it frustrates me. I only have one vote and that's the Uk and I don't want to waste it.

I chose to live in Germany. It was a choice totally based on lifestyle and mindset and unaffected by work or partners as many decisions can be. As it was my choice it feels daft to complain about things here; like choosing to buy a yellow car and then complaining it's yellow. If, overall, I don't like it, then I will just move to somewhere I do like. I therefore don't currently have a connection like I do with the UK .....even though my UK connection was forced on me by my birthplace and at times I feel it's an absurd artificial link. I therefore don't align myself to any party here. And whilst I can vote in some elections I choose not as I don't currently feel it's my position or place. All of this might change over time though. I do like PR and can see real sense and value in the coalitions here.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yep, unfortunately that was the last time i voted for Labour, vowed never again, i was ashamed of them.

And so was I. I do think both main parties have learnt from this though.

I was also let down over uni tuition fees.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Spot on. I have worked under two Labour and two Conservative terms and Labour has turned out worse both times, as a working class chap i am annoyed that Labour are not the party for the working man.

I think if the Labour Party championed the working person more, and championed the youth, they'd clean up. I'm not convinced elections are won on the middle-ground any more.