Fine the child was beheaded and not decapitated. Why does it matter? It happened, a bomb blew the head off a child, there is not point arguing over semantics.All true - I was just pointing out that ”Decapitation“ in common parlance means deliberate beheading with a blade - To post tweets talking about the “decapitation of babies” from the bombing is meant to incite a certain response . These tweets about Rafah are deliberately meant to convey an image of Israel (the IDF ) decapitating babies in the way Hamas were accused of doing so on October 7. The tweet I posted even conflates the two.
Of course.
However- Real evidence that points to genocide and war crimes IS getting out - There are Palestinian journalists in Gaza working for Western news syndicates who are getting news out - it is how the BBC/Reuters/ARP are sourcing much of the news. Yes - It is foreign journalists that have no or limited (IDF controlled access). I posted several articles on here last month detailing exactly that - they have to go where the IDF wants them to and can not report anything that would be ‘against’ Israel - (Which is why Al Jazeera has been banned from Israel)
The Palestinian journalists providing news to Western media agencies are probably quite reliable though and are usually fact checked quite carefully - problem is they are getting arrested and shot for their efforts - (no one much on here seemed to care when I posted that some months back)
However, as far as tweets about “decapitated kids’ - That babies and children died from an air attack on a refugee camp is horrific enough without tweets like this trying to conjure up ISIS-like images to describe the IDF’s behaviour.
View attachment 183052
And we can do without complete and utter BS like this from Netanyahu too …
Deadly strike on Rafah a tragic mishap, Netanyahu says
Scores were killed in the camp for displaced Palestinians which Israel says targeted "senior Hamas terrorists".www.bbc.co.uk
[News] Middle East conflict
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You're right, words are important, and we maybe need another word to describe the removal of a person's head when struck by a bomb.All true - I was just pointing out that ”Decapitation“ in common parlance means deliberate beheading with a blade - To post tweets talking about the “decapitation of babies” from the bombing is meant to incite a certain response . These tweets about Rafah are deliberately meant to convey an image of Israel (the IDF ) decapitating babies in the way Hamas were accused of doing so on October 7. The tweet I posted even conflates the two.
Of course.
However- Real evidence that points to genocide and war crimes IS getting out - There are Palestinian journalists in Gaza working for Western news syndicates who are getting news out - it is how the BBC/Reuters/ARP are sourcing much of the news. Yes - It is foreign journalists that have no or limited (IDF controlled access). I posted several articles on here last month detailing exactly that - they have to go where the IDF wants them to and can not report anything that would be ‘against’ Israel - (Which is why Al Jazeera has been banned from Israel)
The Palestinian journalists providing news to Western media agencies are probably quite reliable though and are usually fact checked quite carefully - problem is they are getting arrested and shot for their efforts - (no one much on here seemed to care when I posted that some months back
However, as far as tweets about “decapitated kids’ - That babies and children died from an air attack on a refugee camp is horrific enough without tweets like this trying to conjure up ISIS-like images to describe the IDF’s behaviour.
View attachment 183052
And we can do without complete and utter BS like this from Netanyahu too …
Deadly strike on Rafah a tragic mishap, Netanyahu says
Scores were killed in the camp for displaced Palestinians which Israel says targeted "senior Hamas terrorists".www.bbc.co.uk
We should also be careful not to 'gatekeep' the eyewitness accounts. I've seen way too many interviews on the BBC, Sky and on other channels where the interviewers have been incredibly insensitive to the experiences of Palestinian accounts of the bloodshed that has been happening to their people. Talking over them and insisting again and again, that they need to hear Israel's side of the story or the "Israel claim that they always take care not to target the civilian population" BS. Taking the Instagram post you have quoted above - how should the author have expressed himself to honour the dead babies? Expressing ones emotions is tricky, and even more so in a second language. The words used here don't scream out at me that the IDF have done this with their own hands. The author doesn't even mention an aggressor. "There are no more red lines" is a reasonable statement. Biden has claimed that if Israel were to send troops into Rafah then that would be a red line, and that particular red line has been transgressed. And asking for public outcry is also reasonable. Too many people, including heads of state and public figures have been silent. So the only tricky word - to my mind - is 'beheaded'. It's quite far removed from the depictions of 40 beheaded babies - with no evidence - that the discredited ZAKA were hawking to the press in early October last year. The only difference between the two, is that there is actual visual evidence (not that I've seen it) in this most recent atrocity.
And while we're on the subject of words - and their importance. You mentioned journalists getting shot. True - but they were also 'killed'. Over 100 now.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
Please stop lecturing me about what’s happening in Gaza and Israel. You are preaching to the converted.
As for the Insta post reporting 5 “beheaded babies’ - There is no evidence that the IDF ‘beheaded’ babies.
Of course when bombs are dropped on people, their limbs are torn off - that goes without saying.
I’ll leave you with @Bozza’s response to the interpretation of ‘decapitated’ that he wrote in post # 650. I’m inclined to agree:
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,359
Nice of Hamas to lob missiles at Tel Aviv, knowing exactly what the response would be. Hamas are the Palestinians worst enemy
aolstudios
Well-known member
Yep. Cynically & deliberately.
The more Palestinian dead the better. They've said so, regularly
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
Fantastic news - won’t make much difference in the short term but will help to drive the focus toward a political settlement
Gaza war: Spain, Ireland and Norway formally recognise Palestinian state
The three European nations aim to refocus attention on finding a political solution to the Gaza war.
www.bbc.co.uk
I did not intend to lecture in the slightest. My reply was intended for readers of the thread, and not just targeted towards you. And I thought I made myself pretty clear that I don't believe the IDF chopped anyone's heads off. My last word on this subject is a tweet from Sky's Special Correspondent, Alex Crawford, just a few hours ago:
Yes agreed mellotron, what a ridiculous conversation to have
- Oct 20, 2022
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Who said it was?
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I don't know why you are angry. I wasn't specifically aiming this at you?
- Oct 20, 2022
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Im not ‘angry’.
I do however, get a little exasperated that it seems impossible at times to discuss this conflict without some people feeling the need to polarise their views all the time - if one critiques Israel it’s supporting Hamas, if one critiques Hamas or their use of propaganda one is under suspicion of condoning war crimes and genocide. Neither are true.
More specifically and why I took issue with the original tweets that I posted above and Palestinians reporting that the Israelis had “decapitated and beheaded babies”, is because in the refugee camps the civilian population have little access to the internet and the mobile communication networks are controlled by Hamas ( or Israel). Tweets like the one I posted above describing scenes of “beheaded” babies, and drawings of people holding up headless babies, risks spreading the idea around the refugee camps ( in the absence of accessible info to the contrary) that the IDF is going around with machetes.
- no that would not be worse than killing babies with bombs - in its outcome - of course not - but the idea of death by deliberate beheading obviously generates a more visceral response - it does in all of us - this is what Hamas would like the Palestinian civilians to believe, that what atrocities they carry out as extremist jihadist fundamentalists is acceptable because the IDF uses the same methods ( or so the narrative goes) - Hamas do not want Gazans supporting a two state solution or supporting the proposed deal where Abbas’s pro-Western Palestinian Authority has charge of Gaza once the fighting is over ( nor does Netanyahu btw) - Hamas see their future as being in control of a population of ultra-radicalised Gazans who are against the PA and will take the fight to the next generation of Israelis and generation after that so a two state solution is never achieved.
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armchairclubber
Well-known member
I've never understood why people do this. How does it make them feel? What a sick individual.
Rather like the big game trophy hunters with their post kill photo. Though when you think of the consequences this really is a different level. These are random bombs and as we've seen for some time it's now difficult to comprehend who or what they are actually targeting.
Obviously something in it for this Nikki Hailey though.
- Oct 20, 2022
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Biden says Israel has agreed to his Peace Proposal
“The war will not end until all its goals are achieved, including the return of our hostages and the neutralization of Hamas’ military and governance capabilities …” which Israel said this week, could take another 7 months.
So, not sure what kind of ceasefire plan includes a provision for Israel to continuing killing civilians and bombardment of Gaza for as long as they like, sounds like political hogwash to me and Biden trying to pander to the Arab American vote angry that he continues to give Israel ‘iron clad’ support - but there it is.
Netanyahu’s far right coalition members are apparently against any peace plan. Hamas has yet to comment.
At least it has provided both sides with an exit strategy, an off ramp but it is not much more than that imo without an agreement as when the ceasefire should begin.
www.theguardian.com
www.aljazeera.com
- Beginning with a 6 week ceasefire and a withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip - the release of a number of hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners. The plan also provides for humanitarian aid to get in during the ceasefire.
“The war will not end until all its goals are achieved, including the return of our hostages and the neutralization of Hamas’ military and governance capabilities …” which Israel said this week, could take another 7 months.
So, not sure what kind of ceasefire plan includes a provision for Israel to continuing killing civilians and bombardment of Gaza for as long as they like, sounds like political hogwash to me and Biden trying to pander to the Arab American vote angry that he continues to give Israel ‘iron clad’ support - but there it is.
Netanyahu’s far right coalition members are apparently against any peace plan. Hamas has yet to comment.
At least it has provided both sides with an exit strategy, an off ramp but it is not much more than that imo without an agreement as when the ceasefire should begin.
Biden urges Hamas to accept Israeli plan for Gaza ceasefire: ‘Time for this war to end’
US president outlines deal that would offer permanent ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal for hostage release and rebuilding effort
www.theguardian.com
Biden says Israel has agreed to ‘enduring’ Gaza ceasefire proposal
US president’s announcement comes as he faces widespread criticism over his Gaza policy in lead-up to November election.
fly high
Well-known member
“The government of Israel is united in its desire to return the hostages as soon as possible and is working to achieve this goal,” the statement said. “The prime minister authorised the negotiating team to present a proposal to that end, which would also enable Israel to continue the war until all its objectives are achieved, including the destruction of Hamas’s military and governing capabilities.Biden says Israel has agreed to his Peace Proposal
Sounds like all the previous Peace proposals tbh because Israel‘s condition for “agreeing to the peace plan’ (which Biden has seemingly agreed to) is that there will be no ceasefire until Israel has achieved its objectives in Gaza in destroying Hamas - as reported by Haaretz:
- Beginning with a 6 week ceasefire and a withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip - the release of a number of hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners. The plan also provides for humanitarian aid to get in during the ceasefire.
“The war will not end until all its goals are achieved, including the return of our hostages and the neutralization of Hamas’ military and governance capabilities …” which Israel said this week, could take another 7 months.
So, not sure what kind of ceasefire plan includes a provision for Israel to continuing killing civilians and bombardment of Gaza for as long as they like, sounds like political hogwash to me and Biden trying to pander to the Arab American vote angry that he continues to give Israel ‘iron clad’ support - but there it is.
Netanyahu’s far right coalition members are apparently against any peace plan. Hamas has yet to comment.
At least it has provided both sides with an exit strategy, an off ramp but it is not much more than that imo without an agreement as when the ceasefire should begin.
Biden urges Hamas to accept Israeli plan for Gaza ceasefire: ‘Time for this war to end’
US president outlines deal that would offer permanent ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal for hostage release and rebuilding effort
Biden says Israel has agreed to ‘enduring’ Gaza ceasefire proposal
US president’s announcement comes as he faces widespread criticism over his Gaza policy in lead-up to November election.
How is it a cease fire if the Israeli government wants to continue the war until Hamas are destroyed? That is total bollocks, why should Hamas even consider it?
- Oct 20, 2022
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Hamas views latest proposed deal 'positively'
Hamas has said in a statement that it views the latest ceasefire proposal put forward by US President Joe Biden as "positive".The Palestinian militant group reaffirmed its readiness to deal with any proposal that offers the following:
- A permanent ceasefire
- Complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza
- Reconstruction of the Gaza Strip
- A return of displaced Palestinians to their place of residence
- A "serious" exchange of prisoners and hostages
Earlier, the office for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said it had also been devising a proposal which would secure the return of all 100 hostages still in Gaza.
However, it said the war would not end until all goals - including the "elimination of Hamas' military and governmental capabilities" - are achieved.
Israel-Gaza latest: Hamas responds to ceasefire proposal - but it's unclear where Israel stands
Joe Biden last night announced a surprise plan with three phases: the first would be a six-week ceasefire, the second the return of remaining hostages, and the third a reconstruction plan for Gaza. We'll be bringing you all the reaction to this throughout the day.
Somehow missed this - apologies if already posted.
Israel has a shadowy camp in the desert with horrific conditions
apnews.com
Israel has a shadowy camp in the desert with horrific conditions
Israel maintains a shadowy hospital in the desert for Gaza detainees. Critics allege mistreatment
Patients lying shackled and blindfolded on more than a dozen beds inside a white tent in the desert. Surgeries performed without adequate painkillers.
apnews.com
- Oct 20, 2022
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Israeli far-right ministers threaten to resign over Gaza ceasefire proposal - BBC News
Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir say they are opposed to striking any deal before Hamas is destroyed.
www.bbc.co.uk
Ben-Gvir quitting the Israeli Government over Biden’s peace plan would definitely not be a bad idea - the less extreme far right ministers in this dynamic the better.
Hamas has apparently ‘accepted’ the deal if Israel do.
armchairclubber
Well-known member
Warning of Images..Graphic suffering. Night after Night.
The Genocide continues.
with this nation of Palestine
(Link doesn't appear to load)
The Genocide continues.
with this nation of Palestine(Link doesn't appear to load)
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