Except Israel are the long term oppressors and Palestinians are the subjugated so not not really...
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,652
I think this assessment is called simplistic.
Great.
Now we’ve got 5 more years of the Tories because Labour MPs feel they have to resign (or get themselves sacked) over an issue that has got f*** all to do with them compared* with getting the country back on track.
I am fully on board supporting people who say we should ask the Israeli government to show restraint, but Labour’s focus should be on getting into government for us.
And by the way, if there’s a body of people that wants to protect the people of Gaza then it’s Hamas. They could try surrendering.
*active word is ‘compared’. We need to stop thinking we’re some global superpower. The Israeli government and Hamas won’t give two shits that Labour MPs are for or against them. It won’t change a thing! Deluded ex-Imperialists try shaking their soggy swords at the world.
f***ing fuming!
Now we’ve got 5 more years of the Tories because Labour MPs feel they have to resign (or get themselves sacked) over an issue that has got f*** all to do with them compared* with getting the country back on track.
I am fully on board supporting people who say we should ask the Israeli government to show restraint, but Labour’s focus should be on getting into government for us.
And by the way, if there’s a body of people that wants to protect the people of Gaza then it’s Hamas. They could try surrendering.
*active word is ‘compared’. We need to stop thinking we’re some global superpower. The Israeli government and Hamas won’t give two shits that Labour MPs are for or against them. It won’t change a thing! Deluded ex-Imperialists try shaking their soggy swords at the world.
f***ing fuming!
jonny.rainbow
Well-known member
- Oct 29, 2005
- 6,846
Politicians with some modicum of a social conscience is a bad thing?
Starmer has this wrong. He is a weak leader for not seeing that.
With regards to your point about electioneering, a lot of MPs would lose the votes of their constituents if they voted against something they knew was morally wrong anyway.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,947
Labour Party members voting with SNP to back a ceasefire - I honestly never thought I would live to see the day when a Labour Leader threatened to sack MPs who voted to stop killing thousands of unarmed civilians immediately - there is absolutely no justification to continue supporting Israel in these war crimes - Netanyahu is no more limiting attacks to terrorists than Assad did in Syria - it is a LIE.
Not in my name Starmer - absolutely no Sir - you are DONE
19.41 GMT
The rebels on the front bench included Phillips, Rachel Hopkins, Sarah Owen, Afzal Khan, Paula Barker, Naz Shah, Yasmin Quereshi and Andy Slaughter. Two parliamentary private secretaries also left.
The 56 Labour MPs rejected Starmer’s position, which calls for a “credible, diplomatic and political process” to deliver a peaceful two-state solution in between Israel and Palestine. The SNP motion called for an immediate ceasefire.
The rebellion signals how the divisions over views on the Israel-Hamas conflict have the potential to tear Labour apart – a point of contention that Starmer will face tough questions about as the country gears up for a general election in the next year.
The biggest name to leave the front bench was Phillips, who said in a statement: “On this occasion I must vote with my constituents, my head, and my heart … I can see no route where the current military action does anything but put at risk the hope of peace and security for anyone in the region now and in the future.”
After the vote, Starmer said: “I regret that some colleagues felt unable to support the position tonight. But I wanted to be clear about where I stood, and where I will stand.”
Three Labour frontbenchers resigned in the minutes before the vote, after Starmer made clear that those voting for the ceasefire amendment would be sacked.
Meanwhile, outside the gates of parliament, a large demonstration in support of a ceasefire shouted “shame on you” at MPs who rejected calls for an immediate stop in the fighting.
A protester holds a placard and chants slogans during a rally in support of Palestinians, outside of the Houses of Parliament in central London on November 15, 2023, to demand Members of Parliament vote for a ceasefire in Gaza.
www.theguardian.com
Not in my name Starmer - absolutely no Sir - you are DONE
19.41 GMT
Eight shadow ministers quit or face sack from Starmer's frontbench over Labour's opposition to Gaza ceasefire
Labour leader Keir Starmer has seen a big rebellion of eight shadow ministers – including Jess Phillips – from a total of 56 Labour MPs who voted with the SNP on an amendment to the king’s speech calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.The rebels on the front bench included Phillips, Rachel Hopkins, Sarah Owen, Afzal Khan, Paula Barker, Naz Shah, Yasmin Quereshi and Andy Slaughter. Two parliamentary private secretaries also left.
The 56 Labour MPs rejected Starmer’s position, which calls for a “credible, diplomatic and political process” to deliver a peaceful two-state solution in between Israel and Palestine. The SNP motion called for an immediate ceasefire.
The rebellion signals how the divisions over views on the Israel-Hamas conflict have the potential to tear Labour apart – a point of contention that Starmer will face tough questions about as the country gears up for a general election in the next year.
The biggest name to leave the front bench was Phillips, who said in a statement: “On this occasion I must vote with my constituents, my head, and my heart … I can see no route where the current military action does anything but put at risk the hope of peace and security for anyone in the region now and in the future.”
After the vote, Starmer said: “I regret that some colleagues felt unable to support the position tonight. But I wanted to be clear about where I stood, and where I will stand.”
Three Labour frontbenchers resigned in the minutes before the vote, after Starmer made clear that those voting for the ceasefire amendment would be sacked.
Meanwhile, outside the gates of parliament, a large demonstration in support of a ceasefire shouted “shame on you” at MPs who rejected calls for an immediate stop in the fighting.
A protester holds a placard and chants slogans during a rally in support of Palestinians, outside of the Houses of Parliament in central London on November 15, 2023, to demand Members of Parliament vote for a ceasefire in Gaza.
Jess Phillips quits Labour frontbench as Keir Starmer suffers major rebellion over Gaza ceasefire – UK politics as it happened
SNP motion calling for ceasefire in Gaza defeated 294-125
www.theguardian.com
The thing is Hamilton, some people care more about the utter destruction of a society, including mass slaughter of children, than they do about winning over floating voters.
I've understood Starmer's beige man tactics up to now, but this is pathetic. Problem is we have no idea what he actually stands for. Is this stance electioneering or his actual view? Either way it's not a good look.
portslade seagull
Well-known member
I like Jess Phillips think she'd make a great future Labour leader
Israeli defence force commander: “Prime Minister Netanyahu, I bring grave news. Several Labour MPs have voted in the UK Parliament for a ceasefire in a vote which was always going to fail.”
Netanyahu: “Shit, the game’s up, lads. Everyone back to barracks.”
Netanyahu: “Shit, the game’s up, lads. Everyone back to barracks.”
More seriously, any hopes for a ceasefire were ended when Hamas came out and said they would just keep doing attacks on the scale of October 7th until such time as Israel was destroyed. What is the point in demanding a ceasefire when at best one side would adhere to it?
I’d rather MPs spent their time picking fights on things they could affect. All the Labour rebels have done is pointlessly waste political capital on an issue they have no power to influence, and in turn taken attention off a pretty humiliating defeat in court for the Government.
aolstudios
Well-known member
Should our politicians also stay quiet when it comes to Putin's invasion of Ukraine?
What did Ukraine do to provoke Russia to invade?
jonny.rainbow
Well-known member
- Oct 29, 2005
- 6,846
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,947
I would rather 5 more years of Tories than we be dragged into a conflict in the Middle East or risk the radicalisation of a generation of muslims in the ME and around the world which is what Israel is risking with this continued bombardment. If we as a Country can’t condemn human atrocities and support what every NGO and UN organisation is asking for, including UNICEF and Doctors Without Borders, what kind of Country does that make us?
People aren’t calling for ‘restraint’ that ship has long sailed. They are calling for a ceasefire and for Israel to stop the widespread slaughter of innocent civilians.
Labour ‘getting into government’ and ‘calling for a ceasefire’ does not have to be mutually exclusive.
I agree with you that Labour's stance on the present situation is irrelevant. End of discussion....
Given that Starmer could have gone full Corbyn and demanded an immediate Israeli ceasefire, or (heaven forfend) demanded an immediate Hamas surrender, we can be thankful that instead he's abstaining on Sunak's (equally pointless vote) which (without looking) gives unequivocal support to Israel. As if the rest of the world gives a tiny shit what we think (as you rightly explain).
But let's not fret.
On the home front, with a 3 line whip, the usual labour suspects (it is a broad church) will resign or get themselves sacked by Starmer by voting against the party (Corbyn should have been sacked years ago for doing the same). Had Starmer gone full 'Israel must cease now' then some (or all? dunno) of his Jewish MPs and his MPs who are Israel positive would have resigned. So it goes. That's politics.
Meanwhile in the Conservative party, the nodding dogs who backed Johnson, then Truss, are now Full Square behind Sunak and whatever irrelevant bollocks he's spouting. All hail solidarity, and the tory-borg. The wankers.
Hold your nerve. Steir Kalmer will not lose focus on what matters - forming the next government, and brining some honour and decency (and being grown up) to UK politics. Hopefully.......
Only if both sides agree to it. Otherwise all you’re doing is saying one side should allow itself to be attacked by the other.
So are you also of the opinion the Israeli action in Gaza was unprovoked? Because if not then the two are not comparable.
In Ukraine, one side is clearly in the wrong and if it withdrew tomorrow the conflict would end. The same is not true in Gaza. Demanding a ceasefire in Gaza at this moment would be akin to us saying we will stop supplying weapons to Ukraine to stop the fighting, all it does is allows one side to steamroller the other.