jonny.rainbow
Well-known member
- Oct 29, 2005
- 6,847
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
And let's not forget. Hamas started this present suicidal war. In the hope that Hezbollah and (more importantly) Iran would pile in. Hezbollah waved their fists a bit but by and large Iran (the absolute shitehouse geriatric patriarchy) have said 'Hamas, you're OK Mate. Oh, look over there, a lovely sunset and some smashing migrating birds'
Thus freeing up Hamas to return to firing rockets into Israel and planning their next 7th October-style massacre?
You think Hamas would agree to a ceasefire? If I were Israel I would demand a surrender. This narrative is all as if the attack by Hamas didn't happen, and Israel randomly started bombing Gaza.
Hamas have already said they would return to attacking Israel.
We can at least give Ukraine weapons and other material assistance and encourage other nations to do the same (in the case of America and a few other countries to much greater effect).
We're not going to start sending ammo or rocket launchers to Hamas (and very few people would suggest we should).
Nothing our government says is going to make a blind bit of difference to anything Israel or Hamas do.
Boiling the current conflict down into a glib, simplistic “Ceasefire Now” slogan is to ignore all of this important context which you rightly point out. It’s no better than taking the incredibly complicated and multi-faceted issue of human migration and boiling that down to simply parroting “Stop The Boats”.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
That goes without saying - that’s what a ceasefire is - we have already spent pages on this thread arguing against Israel unilaterally laying down arms/withholding attack but a ceasefire is a peace brokered by a third party usually and by definition requires a cessation of hostilities on both sides - in this case, Qatar, Egypt and Saudi Arabia being the heavy players in ongoing negotiations. In the very least, we should be pushing for a truce - the hostages lives depend on it - negotiations were broken off by Hamas on Sunday because of this:
No. The fact is Hamas attacked Israel, committing horrendous crimes which left over a thousand dead. Following that Israel embarked on a campaign that has left around 11500 dead, including almost 5000 children. Even the US and UK have accepted it's bad enough that they've not vetoed the latest UN Resolution.
It’s hard to take Hamas’ negotiations seriously when they’re also saying this
We will repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated, says Hamas official Ghazi Hamad
Hamas will carry out attacks over and over again "until Israel is annihilated", one of the group's officials has warned.
www.lbc.co.uk
This is why demanding a ceasefire is simply shouting into the wind, it seems to be more about certain elements of the British political left feeling good about themselves than actually achieving anything.
Don’t get me wrong, I find the actions of the Israeli Defence Force monstrous and the Israeli government is a far right group of twats led by a massive, bloodthirsty ****. But when you have Hamas saying “we’re going to just do it again and again” is it any wonder the Israelis aren’t exactly keen to stop?
But we will continue to do business with Israel that facilitates the mass killing of civilians.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
This is where opinion is divided isn’t it - some people think this war started on 7 October 2023, and everything prior to that date irrelevant some people think it started in 1967, when Israel occupied the Palestinian territories, forcing many to flee, with rockets flying back and forth ever since bar some periodic cessation of rocket attacks, some people go back even further and say it started in 1947 with the Partition of Palestine and Israel forcing Palestinians off the land.
However, one looks at it, there has never been a time when Palestinians and Israel have lived in peace and there never will be unless the starting point for both Israel and Palestinians (or whatever new extremist organisation will replace Hamas, because there will be one) accept a mutual recognition of each other’s right to self-determination.
If somebody suggests embargoes or sanctions on Israel linked to their actions in Gaza I'd agree with them.
Resigning over a vote to call for a ceasefire without any prospect of serious engagement to solve the underlying issues is an emotional spasm.
It’s hard to take Hamas’ negotiations seriously when they’re also saying this
We will repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated, says Hamas official Ghazi Hamad
Hamas will carry out attacks over and over again "until Israel is annihilated", one of the group's officials has warned.
This is why demanding a ceasefire is simply shouting into the wind, it seems to be more about certain elements of the British political left feeling good about themselves than actually achieving anything.
Don’t get me wrong, I find the actions of the Israeli Defence Force monstrous and the Israeli government is a far right group of twats led by a massive, bloodthirsty ****. But when you have Hamas saying “we’re going to just do it again and again” is it any wonder the Israelis aren’t exactly keen to stop?
The call for a ceasefire has nothing to do with with lefties wanting to feel good about themselves. It's about preventing the loss of more innocent lives.
The ones that didn't resign were sacked.
It's much the same difference in the circumstances. That's how collective responsibility works.
I don't have to like the position to understand the politics behind it.
They are as bad as each other.
Evil acts by Hamas. Evil response from Israel.
Enough is enough.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,941
Yes, I agree - but conversely (and this isn’t whataboutery!) when you have a government committed to annexing more and more land into Israel, and in the past 10 years at least, having made repeated declarations to a Greater Israel, and when that is apparently evidenced by a tidal wave of settlements and Peace Plans that agree to further annexation of Palestinian territory … well it’s an impasse isn’t it?
That’s why I think we do need to be involved though - the stability of the ME depends on Israel and Hamas coming to a ceasefire as soon as possible. If people really are more concerned about themselves and their own lives in the UK, which I can understand completely then maybe have a think what the impact an escalation of this war, or the destruction of Gaza (made inhabitable) will have on global oil prices - one of the biggest hardships for the British people in the past 3 years has been the price of domestic fuel - largely due to the war in Ukraine - those conditions (sanctions and embargoes) still exist and will be made far worse if the Gazan war becomes a regional conflict. That in turn would push up food prices too, at a time when Ukraine’s grain exports are seriously diminished. Can the West risk such a double threat on the global oil markets?
Oil prices could hit $150 if Israel-Hamas conflict intensifies, World Bank warns
Multilateral lender says commodity markets still reeling from Russia’s war in Ukraine
www.ft.com
Last edited:
So if tonight’s vote had passed, the war would have stopped by now, right?