[News] Middle East conflict

[Kinky Gerbil]

Biden is a car crash. Barely coherent talking about teams FFS. He is a Thunderbirds Puppet. Trump now him really does show how f***ed up the USA is.

The worry is Biden is pushing trump into power again.

 

[rippleman]

This Israeli colonel on the Today programme is doing his side no favours at all.

I’m no way expert enough to decide who is responsible for the attack but his interview was arrogant, hectoring, bullying and full of lies. That’s no way to get people in your side.

Yup. Heard that too. Just kept shouting over the top of the interviewer when she was listing examples of Israel's history of claiming one thing and then, some time down the road, at a time to suit, eventually telling the truth (or gets caught out in their lie).

Another Israeli forces fella (on Newsnight I think) denying that there was a "humanitarian crisis" in Gaza. Says they have plenty of water and leccy etc.

Are all IDF spokespeople arrogant, shouty liars?

 

[Igzilla]

The worry is Biden is pushing trump into power again.

This is Trump's latest:

 

[Hamilton]

It’s probably fair to say you’re quite heavily invested on one side of the argument. When you are, it’s easy to pick up points favourable to your position. I think it’s best that we wait, and try to keep an open mind on responsibility for this dreadful incident.

I agree, but the point he's making is valid.

That same hospital had already taken a strike, but fewer people had died. At that time there was no comment from the IDF. This instance (whoever caused it) has resulted in a greater number of deaths and as a result the clumsy PR machines on both sides have gone into over drive.

The first victim of war is the truth as someone said.

But as you say, we need to wait and see. Unfortunately, I think events that will unfold in the next few days will mean that this horror is sadly forgotten and replaced by more horrors.

Personally, I no longer feel Israel is defending herself and we can't stand by that line. Israel is attacking millions of people - many of whom are forced to live in a Hamas controlled Gaza Strip because they have nowhere else to go.

It's all tragic. All wrong. And we are now further away from a peace than we've ever been before.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Israel knows where the hospitals are, they have world class precision weapons.

What excuse do they have ?

possibly it wasn't them...... lots of things happen in war . Precision rockets don't always work (happened in IRAQ a few times) or there are there weapons stored in the area etc etc.

I personally think Israel made a very big mistake bombing GAZA. War is an extension of politics its part of the process when other things don't work. Israel should have assembled the army but held back and demanded the release of all the hostages. It would have then held the moral high ground in the West and a lot of countries in the middle ground would have agreed. Hamas could now kill all the hostages now and say Israel bombed them.

If the hostages weren't freed then you ramp up the situation by closing the borders BUT establishing safe havens in the south of GAZA where you provide resources to try to drive a wedge between the people and HAMAS . Then Israel needs to provide some bold words and actions around settlers and Palestinian rights and potential separate state. Unfortunately there is no strong single figure in the opposition to do this an America should have been saying this to Israel.....

 

[de la zouch]

Re the hospital, we will never know the truth. It depends which echo chamber you reside to see what you believe. I’d say the evidence of “friendly fire” seems compelling. There will be no winners in this conflict. I do find the criticism of the Israeli general hilarious. Have you ever listened to a Hamas speech (that’s hate filled)

 

[Insel affe]

This is Trump's latest:

I am not surprised they refused to use the word Chrismassass

 

[Bozza]

Re the hospital, we will never know the truth. It depends which echo chamber you reside to see what you believe. I’d say the evidence of “friendly fire” seems compelling. There will be no winners in this conflict. I do find the criticism of the Israeli general hilarious. Have you ever listened to a Hamas speech (that’s hate filled)

Strange post.

It's perfectly possible to believe Hamas is a terrorist organisation that has committed horrific atrocities, cynically use the population of Gaza for its own means and is utterly untrustworthy in all regards, whilst also being able to constructively question the actions of the Israeli state.

The only echo chamber I reside in is the one that wants to see innocent people not sacrificed en masse for political gain, and that applies regardless of faith and location

 

[Insel affe]

Re the hospital, we will never know the truth. It depends which echo chamber you reside to see what you believe.

Sadly your right, luckily I believe neither the Israelis or Hamas, I think that is the only safe route.

There will be no winners in this conflict.

I think you have forgotten about the American weapons industry and both political parties in America boosting their funds and votes in time for the elections.

I do find the criticism of the Israeli general hilarious. Have you ever listened to a Hamas speech (that’s hate filled)

Two wrongs don't make a right as they say, and that is why there will never ever be peace sadly.

 

[pb21]

This is the "conversation between Hamas operatives as they discuss the failed Islamic Jihad rocket launch"



Its nice and convenient, most things explained twice and even a description of how you get into the cemetery where it was fired from. Case closed.

 

[de la zouch]

Strange post.

It's perfectly possible to believe Hamas is a terrorist organisation that has committed horrific atrocities, cynically use the population of Gaza for its own means and is utterly untrustworthy in all regards, whilst also being able to constructively question the actions of the Israeli state.

The only echo chamber I reside in is the one that wants to see innocent people not sacrificed en masse for political gain, and that applies regardless of faith and locatio

Strange post.

It's perfectly possible to believe Hamas is a terrorist organisation that has committed horrific atrocities, cynically use the population of Gaza for its own means and is utterly untrustworthy in all regards, whilst also being able to constructively question the actions of the Israeli state.

The only echo chamber I reside in is the one that wants to see innocent people not sacrificed en masse for political gain, and that applies regardless of faith and location

Not sure what’s strange about it, but hey you’re the boss.
For the record I oft criticise the actions of the Israeli state (no fan of Netenyahu)
Also we all reside in an echo chamber, pray tell, where do you find your wonderfully balanced one as that’s almost impossible to locate.

 

[Simster]

Re the hospital, we will never know the truth. It depends which echo chamber you reside to see what you believe. I’d say the evidence of “friendly fire” seems compelling. There will be no winners in this conflict. I do find the criticism of the Israeli general hilarious. Have you ever listened to a Hamas speech (that’s hate filled)

Just to reiterate @Bozza's response, this is just plain weird.

Some of us are quite capable of seeing Hamas as an awful, murderous regime who lost the morale high ground when they decided to massacre and kidnap civilians, whilst acknowledging that the Israeli government have been no better having stolen land and imprisoned west bank civilians for the best part of decade, with quite obvious consequences.

Those two positions are not mutually exclusive. I'd say the prevailing view is that there is no good side, the people in charge of both are now responsible for mass slaughter, and it's about time the international community stopped enabling this situation by taking sides,.

 

[de la zouch]

Just to reiterate @Bozza's response, this is just plain weird.

Some of us are quite capable of seeing Hamas as an awful, murderous regime who lost the morale high ground when they decided to massacre and kidnap civilians, whilst acknowledging that the Israeli government have been no better having stolen land and imprisoned west bank civilians for the best part of decade, with quite obvious consequences.

Those two positions are not mutually exclusive. I'd say the prevailing view is that there is no good side, the people in charge of both are now responsible for mass slaughter, and it's about time the international community stopped enabling this situation by taking sides,.

Ok, what did Bozza have for lunch
Why don’t you wipe his arse whilst you’re checking

 

[portslade seagull]

Not sure what’s strange about it, but hey you’re the boss.
For the record I oft criticise the actions of the Israeli state (no fan of Netenyahu)
Also we all reside in an echo chamber, pray tell, where do you find your wonderfully balanced one as that’s almost impossible to locate.

Can you explain then why the IDF colonel tweeted that it was the IDF with a missile strike almost straight after it hit then rather strangely the tweet being removed later and rather unbelievable stories then being concocted to deflect blame. Both sides are as bad as each other and they should both be held accountable for war crimes. Sadly I know which side will get off Scot free

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Ok, what did Bozza have for lunch
Why don’t you wipe his arse whilst you’re checking

Distasteful idiot

 

[Titanic]

Ok, what did Bozza have for lunch
Why don’t you wipe his arse whilst you’re checking

Not needed on this serious thread. Thanks.

 

[Justice]

Can you explain then why the IDF colonel tweeted that it was the IDF with a missile strike almost straight after it hit then rather strangely the tweet being removed later and rather unbelievable stories then being concocted to deflect blame. Both sides are as bad as each other and they should both be held accountable for war crimes. Sadly I know which side will get off Scot free

Apparently that was a fake tweet and not from a credible source. They were discussing it on the radio just now.

 

[Bakero]

I do find the criticism of the Israeli general hilarious. Have you ever listened to a Hamas speech (that’s hate filled)

Don't you hold the general to a higher standard than a spokesman for a terrorist group?

 

[A1X]

It’s times like this that knowing who to trust on Twitter would be extremely handy, unfortunately the new owner has deliberately chosen to make that hard, which in turn allows disinformation to flourish. Just about every piece of “evidence” provided on this incident has as many people claiming it’s genuine as claiming it’s a hoax.

 

[Jim in the West]

It’s times like this that knowing who to trust on Twitter would be extremely handy, unfortunately the new owner has deliberately chosen to make that hard, which in turn allows disinformation to flourish. Just about every piece of “evidence” provided on this incident has as many people claiming it’s genuine as claiming it’s a hoax.

There's a great organisation called Bellingcat which uses IT/AI and other tools to try to verify all kinds of events around the world. I first came across their work when they were highlighting serious breaches of international law by Greek, Turkish and EU border forces in the eastern Aegean. There's an interesting article on their website now, looking at misinformation in the current Israeli/Palestinian tragedy:

Hamas Attacks, Israel Bombs Gaza and Misinformation Surges Online - bellingcat

Videos supposedly from the latest escalation of the conflict are actually years old, from the wrong country or don’t depict a warzone at all.

www.bellingcat.com