[News] Middle East conflict

[rippleman]

It also seems slightly strange that, for all the sophistication of their security services, Israel seemed to have no prior knowledge of the Hamas attack on the 7th October, the most deadly assault inflicted on Jewish people since the Holocaust, yet managed to capture this telephone (presumably?) conversation so perfectly.

I had held back from suggesting that Israel could well have known about the 7/10 attack but decided to let it go ahead.

It has been suggested that Egypt warned Israel of the attack 5 days previously. Then you have Mossad, probably the best security / intelligence agency in the world not having so much of a squeak of such a large scale attack. Mossad has always had agents deeply embedded in Arab territories particularly in Gaza and the West Bank.. Many times those agents identified terrorist leaders and eliminated them.

Netanyahu and his extremist right wing government are in deep trouble at home with protests on the streets by Israelis. What better way to stop dissent than to start a war?

Not saying this IS what happened but IMO it certainly can't be ruled out.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I’m not sure anyone is saying that - I know I’m certainly not.

I believe any of these scenarios are possible and plausible:

- Intentional Israeli strike targeting a Hamas hideout or weapons store.
- Accidental Israeli strike that missed another target.
- Failed launch of a missile from within Gaza.

I guess there's even a fourth scenario, that Hamas or a similar terrorist faction did this intentionally in order to garner sympathy and support.

What I struggle to believe is anything that either Hamas or the IDF say on this matter. They are both organisations with long histories of using misinformation to help their own causes, and both have much to gain by getting people to believe their version of the truth.

It also seems slightly strange that, for all the sophistication of their security services, Israel seemed to have no prior knowledge of the Hamas attack on the 7th October, the most deadly assault inflicted on Jewish people since the Holocaust, yet managed to capture this telephone (presumably?) conversation so perfectly.

TL;DR - a malfunctioning rocket (fired from inside Gaza) is not far-fetched at all. I'm just keen to hear that from someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the narrative.

Bellingcat are on the case - they have just been talking on BBC news. Not much to say about it so far, but they are completely ignoring any audio files as they are practically impossible to verify.

 

[1066familyman]

I had held back from suggesting that Israel could well have known about the 7/10 attack but decided to let it go ahead.

It has been suggested that Egypt warned Israel of the attack 5 days previously. Then you have Mossad, probably the best security / intelligence agency in the world not having so much of a squeak of such a large scale attack. Mossad has always had agents deeply embedded in Arab territories particularly in Gaza and the West Bank.. Many times those agents identified terrorist leaders and eliminated them.

Netanyahu and his extremist right wing government are in deep trouble at home with protests on the streets by Israelis. What better way to stop dissent than to start a war?

Not saying this IS what happened but IMO it certainly can't be ruled out.

Well Netanyahu is already on record as telling his party that they need to support Hamas if they don't wish to see a two state solution. That's the clear divide and rule tactic at play.

What you say here is certainly feasible too IMO.

 

[fly high]

Bellingcat are on the case - they have just been talking on BBC news. Not much to say about it so far, but they are completely ignoring any audio files as they are practically impossible to verify.

Gaza hospital: What video, pictures and other evidence tell us about Al Ahli hospital blast

BBC Verify is analysing evidence from the Al Ahli hospital explosion amid competing claims over responsibility.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC Verify seems to suggest misfired rocket 'may' have cause the fire. Obviously can't be totally sure but could be possible

 

[herecomesaregular]

I had held back from suggesting that Israel could well have known about the 7/10 attack but decided to let it go ahead.

It has been suggested that Egypt warned Israel of the attack 5 days previously. Then you have Mossad, probably the best security / intelligence agency in the world not having so much of a squeak of such a large scale attack. Mossad has always had agents deeply embedded in Arab territories particularly in Gaza and the West Bank.. Many times those agents identified terrorist leaders and eliminated them.

Netanyahu and his extremist right wing government are in deep trouble at home with protests on the streets by Israelis. What better way to stop dissent than to start a war?

Not saying this IS what happened but IMO it certainly can't be ruled out.

I've never been a conspiracy nut but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Israeli government pretty much let "an attack" happen (but perhaps didn't expect it on the music festival nor the savagery of the attackers).

 

[LamieRobertson]

I’m not sure anyone is saying that - I know I’m certainly not.

I believe any of these scenarios are possible and plausible:

- Intentional Israeli strike targeting a Hamas hideout or weapons store.
- Accidental Israeli strike that missed another target.
- Failed launch of a missile from within Gaza.

I guess there's even a fourth scenario, that Hamas or a similar terrorist faction did this intentionally in order to garner sympathy and support.

What I struggle to believe is anything that either Hamas or the IDF say on this matter. They are both organisations with long histories of using misinformation to help their own causes, and both have much to gain by getting people to believe their version of the truth.

It also seems slightly strange that, for all the sophistication of their security services, Israel seemed to have no prior knowledge of the Hamas attack on the 7th October, the most deadly assault inflicted on Jewish people since the Holocaust, yet managed to capture this telephone (presumably?) conversation so perfectly.

TL;DR - a malfunctioning rocket (fired from inside Gaza) is not far-fetched at all. I'm just keen to hear that from someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the narrative.

Thanks for your informative reply ..i was quoting what the poster had appeared to say although i did qualify it with ‘am i reading it right’

 

[Zeberdi]

In this barbaric war of mounting atrocities (and where international laws are being violated with impunity by both sides), I don’t think we will ever know for sure who was responsible for the bombing of the Palestinian Shifa Hospital unless some group or Country admits responsibility- there is no milage in either side doing so of course - not in this war - not from a military perspective nor political perspective …Israel has rocketed schools ( where kids have routinely died) and other medical service centres for years in the OPT where suspected terrorists are supposedly hiding - Hamas has systematically tortured and killed its own Gazan population for years and lobbed rockets at Israel in response to an encroaching tide of settlement expansion, not caring where it’s rockets land - What I find so very depressing with regard to all this, is that the bombing of the Hospital in Gaza, while horrifying, wasn’t a surprise to me.



I’ve been struggling to find a perspective beyond the simple raw horror of it - I’ve come to the conclusion that to me, it doesn’t matter who launched the rocket that emptied it’s devastating and indiscriminate payload onto the biggest hospital in Gaza killing over 500 people (many of whom would have been children) - it only matters in that it happened and I can’t help feeling that everyone that has failed to find a peaceful and equitable solution to the Palestinian question for the past 56 years is culpable.


Maybe it was an accident - perhaps caused by a newly equipped Hamas paramilitary still getting to grips with the upgrade - or a deadly error by one of the thousands of teenage reservists in the IDF, carelessness in the face of his or her first full blown war - maybe it was Hezbollah or the PIJ (another terrorist group operating in Gaza), that doesn’t matter to me either … It could have been a false flag by either side to thwart any potential for a 2 state peace solution once and for all - Israel, to justify her historic treatment of the Palestinians and, in recent years, her refusal under Netanyahu and his extremist Zionists to agree to a two state plan or simply to justify her program of genocide in response to 10/7 - It could have been an escalation engineered by Iran, in the shadow war that we all know is going on, to further destabilise the situation in the ME, to regain influence lost as a result of normalising relations between the Gulf States/Arab league and the West and Israel - or maybe it was Jihadists deliberately dragging Israel further into the Abyss in what they hope will be an existential endgame in the war against the Occupier - Maybe even the US shares a complicity in dissembling information, diverting attention away from a friendly fire incident - perhaps for the purposes of mission creep aimed at destroying Iran’s uranium enrichment programme - all in the name of the War on Terror ….


Who knows? But if any of that has a ring of truth to it, then it worked - because the of bombing of the Hospital with the consequential civilian casualties has escalated the war, both enraging Islamic fundamentalists and moderate Arabs alike - including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and more critically, Abbas, leader of the moderate Palestinian Authority in the West Bank - all of whom have cancelled a much needed summit. A summit that was supposed to discuss getting aid into Gaza and get the Rafah border open. The attack on the Hospital has possibly consigned (if it wasn’t already dead in the water after 10/7) the normalisation talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel to the back burner indefinitely- Blaming it on Hamas, can provide Israel a justification to ‘finish the job’ and ‘destroy Gaza in the process, making it inhabitable for generations and while doing so with scant regard to international law or ‘collateral damage’


- It doesn’t matter to me who is responsible

The only thing that does matter to me, is that thousands of humans are exponentially killing thousands of other humans in the most horrific and unimaginable ways possible while all most of us can do is stand around watching helplessly on the sidelines and wonder, really? What the very very FU@K just happened to the human race?

 

[dwayne]

This is interesting... Actually pours doubt on how bad this explosion was and whether 500 people.really died.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I had held back from suggesting that Israel could well have known about the 7/10 attack but decided to let it go ahead.

It has been suggested that Egypt warned Israel of the attack 5 days previously. Then you have Mossad, probably the best security / intelligence agency in the world not having so much of a squeak of such a large scale attack. Mossad has always had agents deeply embedded in Arab territories particularly in Gaza and the West Bank.. Many times those agents identified terrorist leaders and eliminated them.

Netanyahu and his extremist right wing government are in deep trouble at home with protests on the streets by Israelis. What better way to stop dissent than to start a war?

Not saying this IS what happened but IMO it certainly can't be ruled out.

My guess is this has parallels with Thatcher not doing anything about the Argie Falklands invasion till after it happened. Cock up rather than conspiracy. Bibi is a combination of Johnson and Trump: lazy, self-regarding and opportunistic, with no plan other than to repress opposition (at home as well as abroad), while happy to be aligned with lunatics to prop up his own position.

 

[A1X]

Some Israeli Government spokesman on Sky just now, asked (perfectly reasonably) “if you destroy Hamas, what happens in Gaza after that?”

His response? “We defeat Hamas then decide what to do in Gaza”. A plan which worked really well in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria…

 

[WATFORD zero]

Some Israeli Government spokesman on Sky just now, asked (perfectly reasonably) “if you destroy Hamas, what happens in Gaza after that?”

His response? “We defeat Hamas then decide what to do in Gaza”. A plan which worked really well in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria…

If anything has been learnt in the middle east over the last few decades, it's that if the West decides to take out 'the heart of evil' directly or by proxy what replaces it ?

 

[borat]

From Channel 4 on the audio regarding the hospital

 

[aolstudios]

This is interesting... Actually pours doubt on how bad this explosion was and whether 500 people.really died.

Pretty much what sky news were saying this afternoon. They couldn't see that this could've caused that many deaths. & that the number was reported before anyone could have known

 

[Krafty]

EDIT: I believe the hospital still remains intact; it was the car park outside that was hit by the strike.

 

[Bozza]

Meanwhile, in Washington...

 

[Eeyore]

This is interesting... Actually pours doubt on how bad this explosion was and whether 500 people.really died.

However: BBC

Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George's College in Jerusalem, told the BBC that about 1,000 displaced people were sheltering in the courtyard when it was hit, and about 600 patients and staff were inside the building.

So the truth is- We are unlikely to ever know the truth.

 

[nicko31]

Piers not at ease.

Just sometimes injustice can only be tackled with humour

 

[BN41Albion]

Piers not at ease …

Was about to click play, then thought nah don't want to rile myself up just before going to bed

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Piers not at ease …

Has Bassem got our starting line up in his hands? I blame Kayal.

 

[A mex eyecan]

If anything has been learnt in the middle east over the last few decades, it's that if the West decides to take out 'the heart of evil' directly or by proxy what replaces it ?

most likely 2 evil hearts which will then start to fight each other. But rest assured no matter who or what replaces it there will still be arguments, lies, murders of innocent people and children