[News] Middle East conflict

[dsr-burnley]

Among all the talk of Israel being an apartheid state, it might be worth asking the question: Who is safer - a Moslem living in Israel, or a Jew living in Palestine?

 

[keaton]

Among all the talk of Israel being an apartheid state, it might be worth asking the question: Who is safer - a Moslem living in Israel, or a Jew living in Palestine?

Well at the moment a Jew living in Palestine runs the risk of being hit by a number of missiles from Israel so I'd say the former

Edited to remove phosphorus reference

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Agreed and also the reduction/paucity of facts can present a biased perspective of history too -

The UN Partition Plan grew out of complicated time in post-colonial Britain and the immediacy of having to find a home for the influx of Jews in post-War Europe. The comparatively unsophisticated stage of development of Palestinian settlers already living on the lands of Palestine at the time (with a minority of Jewish and other ethnic/bedouin groups ) meant as a Peoples party to the negotiations, they were standing on uneven ground. The conquerers as we know write history but there is enough documented evidence from the time to show why the Palestinians couldn’t/wouldn’t accept the UN Partition Plan of 1947 and why
although adopted, was never implemented - They saw it as favourable to the Jews and untrustworthy for a number of reasons - the fact that Israel unilaterally declared herself as an independent State following the 1948 war, left boundaries undefined and a race of ethnic settlers feeling they’d been conquered by an invading colonial force who had ‘stolen’ their lands with the intention of moving them off completely. This mistrust was further validated with the expansion of the boundaries of Israel proposed by the UN in 1947 as a result of the 1967 War.

https://lsa.umich.edu/content/dam/cmenas-assets/cmenas-documents/unit-of-israel-palestine/Section1_UnitedNationsPartitionPlan.pdf

50 years later, after decades of bloody conflict, expansion settlements, mini-peace accords doing no more than rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, we are no closer to a recognised independent State of Palestine. With increasing oppression under Netanyahu’s government that’s currently looking less and less likely.

Of course it’s all too easy for so many Palestines to regret that Plan was never accepted by their parent’s generation - but as the article suggests, who knows whether the Plan would ever have come to fruition even if it had been prima facia acceptable to both sides?

Who knows if it would have prevented years of terrorist activity by extremist groups on both sides who, even if the Partition Plan was implemented, would still have been hellbent on destroying the any peace it would have acquired…the horrific attacks by Hamas coming at a time when the rest of the Arab world is normalising relations with Israel - and a time when Trump/Netanyahu has changed the original Partition Plan further, one might be forgiven for thinking possibly not.

I should have expanded my point but was sat in my car on the phone.

Your posts are helpful, balanced and should perhaps be re-read by a few. Myopic views result in anger and resentment.

 

[nicko31]

Are you BennettsFieldBunny off Twitter?

Someone's trying to spread fear by the looks of things

 

[aolstudios]

I literally watched Kay Burley do it this morning, and Sophie Ridge do it a couple of nights ago.

I literally saw Kay Burley do the opposite.
Both today & yesterday

 

[Zeberdi]

Unbelievable

- from an African webpage -I think - not sure where the OP picked it up from but probably shouldn’t be copying and pasting his message into NSC anyway even if it is to kindly warn NSCers to stay indoors on Friday because it’s doomsday for the infidels!

Obviously we’re on a high level of threat at the moment but it’s only ‘substantial‘ sonI shall still be going to the bloody pub for a drink Friday night - if it reaches ‘critical’ before then …

Threat Levels

Members of the public should always remain alert to the danger of terrorism and report any suspicious activity to the police on 999 or the anti-terrorist hotline: 0800 789 321. If your information doe

www.mi5.gov.uk

I’ll still go to the pub

 

[aolstudios]

Well at the moment a Jew living in Palestine runs the risk of being hit by a phosphorus missile from Israel so I'd say the former

The 'phosphorus missile video ' is from Ukraine

 

[Bakero]

I literally saw Kay Burley do the opposite.
Both today & yesterday

Link?

As others have said, there are numerous interviews with Palestinians, or those sympathetic to their situation, who are not able to say anything without prefacing it by condemning violence against the Israelis. Even when they set out by criticising Hamas, they are often pilloried for mentioning the other side of the story. Happy to share links if you need examples.

 

[aolstudios]

Link?

As others have said, I've seen multiple interviews with Palestinians who are not able to say anything without prefacing it by condemning violence against the Israelis. Happy to share links if you need examples.

Both on her morning news show.
Yesterday & today, more than once. Even to a Jewish woman close to tears, whose relatives have been kidnapped

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I literally watched Kay Burley do it this morning, and Sophie Ridge do it a couple of nights ago.

I've lost track of what message you're replying to, but my imagination has kicked in and i'm suddenly very interested in your anecdote.

 

[jackalbion]

Might be best to stay at home this Friday if at all possible

Hopefully will come to nothing though , fingers crossed

Former Hamas Leader Calls On Muslims To Carry Out Protests, Global 'Jihad' On Friday | Sahara Reporters

Former Hamas leader and founding member Khalid Mashal has called for global jihad on Friday, October 13, 2023. He also called for a show of anger and protests across the Muslim world on Friday in support of the Palestinians amid the ongoing conflict with Israel. Mashal gave the call in a...

saharareporters.com

He called Friday, October 13 "The Friday of Al-Aqsa flood.”


He said Mashal asked Muslims to “show anger, especially next Friday, in Muslim countries and also among Muslim diaspora around the world”.

“He wants Muslims to fight against the Jews, starting with Muslims who live in the countries surrounding Israel: Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt (but also other countries), to go to the borders and try to enter, each by his own means. He said: This is the time for Jihad to be applied on the ground rather than just in theory.

Aldershot v Lewes might not be a safe option after all.

 

[Steve Foster]

To anyone who thinks that Israel should give land to the Palestinian’s - take a look below as to the size of Israel.

The Gaza Strip borders Egypt. Jordan has a sizeable Palestinian population.

Israel is the only westernised, democratic country in the Middle East & the haters in Lebanon, Syria & beyond despise this.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The 'phosphorus missile video ' is from Ukraine

You are very much right to flag up misinformation where you see it - and a video incorrectly purporting to be of this conflict, is very much that.

That said though, over 1400 people have been killed by Israeli airstrikes in Gaza this week - so his point very much stands - irrespective of one particular video.

 

[keaton]

The 'phosphorus missile video ' is from Ukraine

I was aware the video was dodgy, but not the claim. Have removed it now

 

[Guinness Boy]

To anyone who thinks that Israel should give land to the Palestinian’s - take a look below as to the size of Israel.

The Gaza Strip borders Egypt. Jordan has a sizeable Palestinian population.

Israel is the only westernised, democratic country in the Middle East & the haters in Lebanon, Syria & beyond despise this.

View attachment 167981

Leaving aside the size thing, you've mentioned one country in your list that is democratic - Egypt. Furthermore, Israel's democracy has led to four inconclusive elections where the country was basically all but ungovernable and has ultimately led to a situation where Likud is propped up by the likes of the Religious Zionist Party (10.83% of the popular vote). Not dissimilar to when Theresa May was propped up by the DUP and got nothing done to the consternation of both the left and Brexiteers.

While parts of Israel may be considered 'Westernised' (Tel Aviv as we've said on the thread is a liberal, party loving city and home to some incredibly good tech companies) the same can't be said for many other areas including Jerusalem, while the country still operates on a Sunday - Thursday working week, putting it out of step with the West and in line with the rest of the Middle East.

 

[borat]

Thanks for sharing this, but I can't help but think that he has just described the situation as it is. That's not complicated. He hasn't actually described what has created that situation and the reasons behind the entrenched cultures and beliefs. That's complicated and needs understanding.

But imagine this small extract needs to be seen in the context of other things he said prior to this or goes onto say, so in itself it's being used to do what? Blame Israel? Feels like it's used out of context.

Just as those maps that show the changing nature of Palestine since 1947 are misused.

Palestinians are being persecuted. The actions of certain governments are unacceptable, but the idea that this isn't complex is something I'm sure Mr Brooks would not want circulated. It is complex.

There's a reason why there's 9 million jewish people in Israel and a reason why they feel threatened. To be honest, in Mr Brooks analogy, there would be 9 million jews in Palestine if they were to swap places and place themselves in the West Bank and Gaza. There'd be none.

In 1917 the Ottoman empire attempted to expel 10,000 jews from Tel Aviv. The population of Jews in Palestine in 1880 was just 20,000. We all know the reason for the influx of Jewish people into Palestine, and so perhaps a few governments need to look a little closer to home when asking who created Israel. Persecution and fear causes peoples to move.

It is so complex.

The point he's making more eloquently than I could is that if the situation were reversed and Palestinian were oppressing Israeli Jews by keeping them in a open prison, controlling their water and electricity, monitoring them, imprisoning for years without trial, killing them and their families over many decades, there would be absolute outrage and horror across Western Media and politicians (and rightly so). 1940s would be invoked. They (western media and politicians) would cheer and fund the resistance (armed or otherwise) to this imposed barbarity.

 

[Insel affe]

Might be best to stay at home this Friday if at all possible

Hopefully will come to nothing though , fingers crossed

Former Hamas Leader Calls On Muslims To Carry Out Protests, Global 'Jihad' On Friday | Sahara Reporters

Former Hamas leader and founding member Khalid Mashal has called for global jihad on Friday, October 13, 2023. He also called for a show of anger and protests across the Muslim world on Friday in support of the Palestinians amid the ongoing conflict with Israel. Mashal gave the call in a...

saharareporters.com

He called Friday, October 13 "The Friday of Al-Aqsa flood.”


He said Mashal asked Muslims to “show anger, especially next Friday, in Muslim countries and also among Muslim diaspora around the world”.

“He wants Muslims to fight against the Jews, starting with Muslims who live in the countries surrounding Israel: Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt (but also other countries), to go to the borders and try to enter, each by his own means. He said: This is the time for Jihad to be applied on the ground rather than just in theory.

Thankfully 99.99999999999% of Muslims will not heed his call.

To anyone who thinks that Israel should give land to the Palestinian’s - take a look below as to the size of Israel.

The Gaza Strip borders Egypt. Jordan has a sizeable Palestinian population.

Israel is the only westernised, democratic country in the Middle East & the haters in Lebanon, Syria & beyond despise this.

View attachment 167981

Westernised democracy is stretching it a bit......

It is not the size of the country that matters, it is the size of the pricks running it that we need to worry about.

 

[Giraffe]

Thankfully 99% of Muslims will not heed his call.

Westernised democracy is stretching it a bit......

It is not the size of the country that matters, it is the size of the pricks running it that we need to worry about.

A bit of a worry if 1% do though! There is 3.9million muslims in the Uk. If 1% do this that's 39,000 people.

I get your point, but it's only ever the minority that people are scared of.

 

[carlzeiss]

Thankfully 99% of Muslims will not heed his call.

1% would be more then enough to cause chaos

 

[Hugo Rune]

My word this post is depressing. Post some dubious and highly one eyed 'facts' without citation or reference and then attempt to prevent any discussion or contention of said 'facts' with a preemtive accusation of anti semitism.

Mad.

My understanding on this subject is limited but this post leaves me sure that there is little worth learning from you.

View attachment 167985

To anyone who thinks that Israel should give land to the Palestinian’s - take a look below as to the size of Israel.

The Gaza Strip borders Egypt. Jordan has a sizeable Palestinian population.

Israel is the only westernised, democratic country in the Middle East & the haters in Lebanon, Syria & beyond despise this.

View attachment 167981

FFS.

When talking about the relative size of one country or large area compared to another, please use the internationally recognised unit of ‘Wales’ in future.

Thanks.