[News] Middle East conflict

[aolstudios]

As noted, I loved it, and my only problem was getting charged £200 for a 1 mile taxi ride by an arab taxi driver (it was the Sabbath). He settled for £20, still ten times what was appropriate.

I was taken to the Golan Heights by my hosts. At the bottom of the cliff by the sea, Israeli settlements. On top, Syrian guns, that once took pot shots on the villagers for shits and giggles, till Israel took action and shoved the border back a few miles. That was the 7 day's war so I recall. Job done. Why f*** about with arseholes?

f*** sake. Israel is a European style democracy, that has sadly gone the same way as many in Europe, and elected a nob right wing government.
But unlike Syria, Egypt (well, they tried), Lebanon (ditto) and Gaza (once was enough for the first victors - Hamas) Israel can boot out their government via an election.

Fancy that.

Well, exactly

 

[aolstudios]

I don’t like the Zionists

You realise that's the overwhelming majority of Jews, everywhere?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Did you see Sunak wearing a Kippah yesterday? Unbelievable

Perhaps he has a tonsure.

That, or he's a ****.

 

[aolstudios]

I have big problems with huge swathes of Zionism.

I see you rewrote your post

 

[Questions]

I have big problems with huge swathes of Zionism.

But ……. Whenever I say things like that I always get, “so you condone the Hamas slaughters of young Israelis.

 

[Questions]

I see you rewrote your post

Well I didn’t want to dismiss all the ethics behind that statement

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have big problems with huge swathes of Zionism.

If you are still sober (I appreciate it is late, and I may have had a shandy myself) would you care to elaborate? I am unfamiliar with the swathes of Zion.

 

[Questions]

You realise that's the overwhelming majority of Jews, everywhere?

I hope it is. Maybe the youth of Israel will play its part soon.

 

[Questions]

If you are still sober (I appreciate it is late, and I may have had a shandy myself) would you care to elaborate? I am unfamiliar with the swathes of Zion.

The Slaves of Zion. Top class porn

 

[Krafty]

I have big problems with huge swathes of Zionism.

May I ask why?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But ……. Whenever I say things like that I always get, “so you condone the Hamas slaughters of young Israelis.

No you don't.

But you do seem to be channeling Violet Elizabeth Bott.

 

[BadFish]

Could someone explain the difference between Judaism and Zionism, or how the fit with one another. I feel my understanding on this is limited and I possibly have some misconceptions.

 

[raymondo]

Given she's a moron, desperately trying to hang on to power I'm not surprised. I have some great stories about her, particularly as a junior Brexit Minister, but it will have to wait until my (posthumous) memoirs

Can I pre order a copy

 

[aolstudios]

Could someone explain the difference between Judaism and Zionism, or how the fit with one another. I feel my understanding on this is limited and I possibly have some misconceptions.

Judaism is the Jewish religion.
Zionism is the belief in a safe(ish) homeland for Jews (regardless of practicing or not).
The overwhelming majority of Jews worldwide are Zionists

 

[BadFish]

Judaism is the Jewish religion.
Zionism is the belief in a safe(ish) homeland for Jews (regardless of practicing or not).
The overwhelming majority of Jews worldwide are Zionists

Ah okay, thanks.

 

[Zeberdi]

Many make the mistake that all government policy is supported, that 'Israel' is homogenous. It most certainly isn't.

Absolutely

Watching the reaction from ordinary Jews will be informative.

I’m not sure there’s any there’s such a thing as an ‘ordinary’ Jew tbh!

- not only is the spectrum of religious ideology quite wide but the Jewish people are culturally, politically and ethnically very diverse - it’s also worth bearing in mind that not all Jews are both ethnic and religious (ie subscribe to/practice Judaism) but are only Jews by virtue of ethnicity - also, Jews attend Synagogues as places of learning and social gatherings too without being ‘religious’ - in Hove for example, from time to time I attended the Brighton and Hove Progressive Synagogue (with a lovely female Rabbi) but also Brighton and Hove Reform Synagogue and Hove Hebrew Congregation Synagogue - and while not practicing Judaism, as an ethnic Jew, felt at home in all of them as I strongly identify with being Jewish. The point being, people do not always understand that ‘Jewish’ does not refer to a religion but an ethnicity- many Jewish people practice Judaism but not all.

That being said, my Grandparents on my Father’s side were Congregational, in the States, my Jewish relatives do adhere to Judaism and we have our share of bar mitzvahs in the family so have a diverse range of ideology and belief to draw experience from. It’s important to recognise how centuries of persecution has formed the mind set of many Jews - especially (ex) European Jews with a familial connection to the Holocaust experience. In Israel, the population of Jews covers the full very diverse range of Jewish people, cultural, religiously and ethnicity - they will all share one thing though, (on a spectrum of significance to them personally), that as a race, being Jewish has a strong persecution narrative that is passed down from generation to generation...concomitant to that is Zionism and the belief that the State of Israel is a refuge from anti-semitism. Anti-semitism is rife globally but it is not always noticed in our nice, middleclass, semi-urban areas - the Synagogues in Hove were constantly daubed with anti-semitic graffiti and having its windows broken - there were always guards on the doors which remained closed at all times.

The attitude to the Arabs/Palestine varies in intensity even in ‘liberal’ Jews in the UK but I can tell you from direct experience that the level of hate (and fear) towards the Arab people even in Western Europe can be very entrenched in some groups. I recall an afternoon with acquaintances from the Hove Congregational Synagogue and the discussion around adherence to Zionism and hatred of Arabs from the small group of people I was having tea with in someone’s Hove apartment frankly scared me - I was very uncomfortable in that dynamic.

Conversely, the Torah teaches a strong moral code of charity and obligation to help the poor as well as social and legal justice - like all the Monotheistic scriptures in fact, but like most subscribers to any of the 3 main Monotheistic religions, often falling far short of its teachings!

I think it’s important to give a bit of insight into why the Israeli-Palestinian question seems so intractable and why the Israeli-Hamas War could set any hopes for a lasting peace back decades - hatred, fear and suspicion runs deep but so does love and charity so there is always hope.

edit - worth mentioning my own personal fondness for our Chairman, Tony Bloom too - he’s the kind of Jew I genuinely aspire to as was my Father - genuine acts of great charity, loyalty and faith (and as my Dad used to say, you don’t have to be religious to have faith)

 

[jakarta]

I see the Yanks have now arrived and starting supplying weapons, Hamas even deeper in shit now.

 

[Insel affe]

I see the Yanks have now arrived and starting supplying weapons, Hamas even deeper in shit now.

Of course they have, how else is Biden going to fund the election campaign without those extra votes, sorry donations.

 

[Eeyore]

Judaism is the Jewish religion.
Zionism is the belief in a safe(ish) homeland for Jews (regardless of practicing or not).
The overwhelming majority of Jews worldwide are Zionists

That's a very narrow interpretation, just the unifying base denominator. When offered in such a way it gives rise to the all the too common trope that all those who oppose aspects of Zionist ideology are anti-Semites. This, of course, is not true.

I would suggest that anyone wanting to understand Zionism, and its many nuances, takes time to do some reading.

It was interesting reading @Zeberdi I have grown up admiring the Jewish race.. When you think how, despite unbearable persecution throughout history, and a long nomadic existence, they have somehow kept their identity it is astounding. I don't understand why Jews experience so much racism, it's unfathomable.

Palestine and the Middle-East is a separate subject for me. I look at Israel politically. In the same way as opposing the political actions of parliament doesn't make me a self hating Brit.

The events and crimes of the past few days have been truly tragic and I fear the response to them is going to create more tragedy. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. The innocent have suffered, and it will be the innocent who pay the price.

Sad times.

 

[lasvegan]

Of course they have, how else is Biden going to fund the election campaign without those extra votes, sorry donations.

Sadly, Biden is funding the Hamas campaign via Iran, negotiating a hostage for 6 billion dollar exchange while at the same they’re plotting mass murder and hostage replacement.

Biden Is Making the World Dangerous Again

townhall.com

I fully expect an attack on USA soil forthcoming.