[News] Middle East conflict

[St Leonards Seagull]

A Bibi 'spokesman' (a long term advisor) on R5 today made allegations so extreme that Naga said, minutes later, will be checked for their validity. I wonder if there has been an update.

The man stated that Hamas are the same as ISIS and during the present situation they have "beheaded Jewish babies"..

If this is a lie, which it almost certainly is since no other person has reported this, then what?

The man also said the solution is to remove Hamas as there is no scope for discussion. That means genocide.

I do hope this isn't official policy.

If it was the same interview as what I heard it was a hard listen. Determined for revenge at all cost, basically stating it didn’t matter if innocent civilians were killed in this revenge by a state army. As you said proposing genocide of the Palestinians.

 

[dsr-burnley]

A Bibi 'spokesman' (a long term advisor) on R5 today made allegations so extreme that Naga said, minutes later, will be checked for their validity. I wonder if there has been an update.

The man stated that Hamas are the same as ISIS and during the present situation they have "beheaded Jewish babies"..

If this is a lie, which it almost certainly is since no other person has reported this, then what?

The man also said the solution is to remove Hamas as there is no scope for discussion. That means genocide.

I do hope this isn't official policy.

I don't see why the removal of Hamas necessarily means genocide. The removal of the Nazi party in Germany did not mean genocide, and we have been repeatedly and accurately told that Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing.

Israel does not have the ability to prevent further deaths, just as the UK did not have the ability to prevent further deaths in WW2. We could have possibly become neutral and unconquered, but that would not stop the deaths because Hitler would not have ceased killing. And unfortunately by fighting on, German civilians did die because there was no practical way for the UK to fight the war without collateral deaths.

The same questions arise now as they did then, with coincidentally a government that holds the same views of Jews and homosexuals as it did then, and the same end results of dealing with them. Should Hamas (or Hitler) be forcibly removed from power? How much collateral damage to civilians (eg. Gaza City, Hamburg) is acceptable? There can't be a definitive answer, or if there is it's beyond me.

PS - beheaded babies - https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/h...beheadings-says-report-2fdcCmtBjFvAcCCf5MDwKU

 

[sparkie]

Can't help thinking that Russia have somehow poked the fire to distract away from Ukraine

And to use up potential ammo supplies for Ukraine.

 

[nicko31]

I don't see why the removal of Hamas necessarily means genocide. The removal of the Nazi party in Germany did not mean genocide, and we have been repeatedly and accurately told that Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing.

Israel does not have the ability to prevent further deaths, just as the UK did not have the ability to prevent further deaths in WW2. We could have possibly become neutral and unconquered, but that would not stop the deaths because Hitler would not have ceased killing. And unfortunately by fighting on, German civilians did die because there was no practical way for the UK to fight the war without collateral deaths.

The same questions arise now as they did then, with coincidentally a government that holds the same views of Jews and homosexuals as it did then, and the same end results of dealing with them. Should Hamas (or Hitler) be forcibly removed from power? How much collateral damage to civilians (eg. Gaza City, Hamburg) is acceptable? There can't be a definitive answer, or if there is it's beyond me.

PS - beheaded babies - https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/h...beheadings-says-report-2fdcCmtBjFvAcCCf5MDwKU

Once Israel has cleared out Hamas from their territory, they do have the ability to prevent further deaths. Their country is not occupied, this is not Ukraine

 

[dsr-burnley]

Once Israel has cleared out Hamas from their territory, they do have the ability to prevent further deaths. Their country is not occupied, this is not Ukraine

I suspect that few people share your confidence that Hamas will commit no more murders if left alone. Do you believe that Hamas has now become a peaceful body with no hate in its heart?

 

[borat]

I don't see why the removal of Hamas necessarily means genocide. The removal of the Nazi party in Germany did not mean genocide, and we have been repeatedly and accurately told that Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing.

Israel does not have the ability to prevent further deaths, just as the UK did not have the ability to prevent further deaths in WW2. We could have possibly become neutral and unconquered, but that would not stop the deaths because Hitler would not have ceased killing. And unfortunately by fighting on, German civilians did die because there was no practical way for the UK to fight the war without collateral deaths.

The same questions arise now as they did then, with coincidentally a government that holds the same views of Jews and homosexuals as it did then, and the same end results of dealing with them. Should Hamas (or Hitler) be forcibly removed from power? How much collateral damage to civilians (eg. Gaza City, Hamburg) is acceptable? There can't be a definitive answer, or if there is it's beyond me.

PS - beheaded babies - https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/h...beheadings-says-report-2fdcCmtBjFvAcCCf5MDwKU

I don't see why the removal of Hamas necessarily means genocide. The removal of the Nazi party in Germany did not mean genocide, and we have been repeatedly and accurately told that Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing.

Israel does not have the ability to prevent further deaths, just as the UK did not have the ability to prevent further deaths in WW2. We could have possibly become neutral and unconquered, but that would not stop the deaths because Hitler would not have ceased killing. And unfortunately by fighting on, German civilians did die because there was no practical way for the UK to fight the war without collateral deaths.

The same questions arise now as they did then, with coincidentally a government that holds the same views of Jews and homosexuals as it did then, and the same end results of dealing with them. Should Hamas (or Hitler) be forcibly removed from power? How much collateral damage to civilians (eg. Gaza City, Hamburg) is acceptable? There can't be a definitive answer, or if there is it's beyond me.

PS - beheaded babies - https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/h...beheadings-says-report-2fdcCmtBjFvAcCCf5MDwKU

Whilst we are dealing with Hamas - How on the other side do we remove the far right murderous Israeli regime? How do we end the apartheid and terror that Israel has inflicted over decades.

Who would replace Hamas as an accepted Palestinian army? They have a right to defend themselves after all. Or do you expect Palestinians to meekly welcome their oppression, and bombing?

As for the JC report I would wait for independent sources - The JC is less reliable and more sued than the Sun for false reporting.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Whilst we are dealing with Hamas - How on the other side do we remove the far right murderous Israeli regime? How do we end the apartheid and terror that Israel has inflicted over decades.

Who would replace Hamas as an accepted Palestinian army? They have a right to defend themselves after all. Or do you expect Palestinians to meekly welcome their oppression, and bombing?

As for the JC report I would wait for independent sources - The JC is less reliable and more sued than the Sun for false reporting.

How indeed? Good question. I suspect that persuading them to put down their arms and rely on the good graces of their neighbours is not going to work.

By allmeans wait for further confirmation. Harry Wilson's tackle asked for further sources and I linked to one. Others may follow.

 

[Bakero]

As for the JC report I would wait for independent sources - The JC is less reliable and more sued than the Sun for false reporting.

The JC is indeed a bit of a rag but the video they linked to was from i24 News, which seems to be a reliable source. The reporter in the clip is visibly trying to keep it together.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This is turning into a bit of royal clusterfcuk for anyone wanting to leave Israel at the moment - even more aid and medicin sans frontiers workers in Gaza - presumably the border crossing with Egypt is still open.

People struggle to leave Israel as flights book up

One travel agent says he has been "inundated" with calls from people trying to get flights back to the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Israel’s Ministry of Tourism offers support to UK visitors after attacks | Travel Weekly

WhatsApp hotline among sources of help available to tourists

travelweekly.co.uk

I get the security risk of planes flying out of Israel but surely if Israel launches a ground attack in Gaza, some of the few hundred thousand tourists/pilgrims that visit the Holy Land each year, (primarily in April/May and Sept/Oct) will be wanting to get back to Blighty pretty quickly for fear of imminent escalation of the War?

Conflicting reports of whether the border crossing with Egypt is open again. It was closed yesterday after Israel told people to leave Gaza and then bombed the crossing

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...ai-border-crossing-gaza-officials-2023-10-10/

 

[borat]

The JC is indeed a bit of a rag but the video they linked to was from i24 News, which seems to be a reliable source. The reporter in the clip is visibly trying to keep it together.

its an Israeli news channel so my comment remains for now.

Aside from whether its true or not posting gratuitous imagery on the thread is pointless.

I could post 100s of horrific images and videos of Palestinian children and babies decapitated and dismembered by the IDF but its not going to contribute much to the discussion.

 

[nicko31]

I suspect that few people share your confidence that Hamas will commit no more murders if left alone. Do you believe that Hamas has now become a peaceful body with no hate in its heart?

I didn't say Hamas would not commit further murders, they are a terrorist group and sadly will have no shortage of recruits.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

its an Israeli news channel so my comment remains for now.

Aside from whether its true or not posting gratuitous imagery on the thread is pointless.

I could post 100s of horrific images and videos of Palestinian children and babies decapitated and dismembered by the IDF but its not going to contribute much to the discussion.

I'm glad you won't, but where did you learn that the IDF has decapitated babies?

Has this been verified?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I'm glad you won't, but where did you learn that the IDF has decapitated babies?

Has this been verified?

I don't think he meant by specific design.

More just that if you fire hundreds of missiles at hospitals, schools, mosques, refugee camps and apartment blocks, in one of the most densely populated plots of land in the world, that you're going to blow lots of innocents to pieces.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I didn't say Hamas would not commit further murders, they are a terrorist group and sadly will have no shortage of recruits.

That's what I meant when I said Israel can't stop the killing. If they let Hamas be, then Hamas will continue to kill.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Just thinking of our friends and former players Tomer Hemed and Beram Kayal , both to the best of my knowledge back in Israel.
Will they be drafted into the military? Whatever, I wish only for their safety and that of their families.

 

[Justice]

Interesting hearing from that doctor from Liverpool working in a Gaza hospital. When he first arrived and heard the air raid sirens the other hospital workers said don’t worry about it Israel are frequently attacking.

 

[fly high]

Just thinking of our friends and former players Tomer Hemed and Beram Kayal , both to the best of my knowledge back in Israel.
Will they be drafted into the military? Whatever, I wish only for their safety and that of their families.

They show exactly what the future should be for all & the past should have been.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Just thinking of our friends and former players Tomer Hemed and Beram Kayal , both to the best of my knowledge back in Israel.
Will they be drafted into the military? Whatever, I wish only for their safety and that of their families.

Well Beram certainly won't be.

(because apart from anything else, he is on crutches after an horrific leg injury suffered in a game a few weeks ago).

 

[aolstudios]

its an Israeli news channel so my comment remains for now.

Aside from whether its true or not posting gratuitous imagery on the thread is pointless.

I could post 100s of horrific images and videos of Palestinian children and babies decapitated and dismembered by the IDF but its not going to contribute much to the discussion.

No you couldn't.
You're lying.
Again

 

[aolstudios]

I'm glad you won't, but where did you learn that the IDF has decapitated babies?

Has this been verified?

Of course not.
He's lying