[News] Middle East conflict

[Algernon]

If anyone on here has been watching or reading the news and still feels they can support or side with one over the other then they should take a very long hard look at themselves.
Many people including women and children have died and are still dying at the hands of both sides.
This is not a game of football at which you should support one team and shout down the other.
FFS perpetrators on both sides are nothing but animalistic c***s. To say one is better than the other is to condone the violence and deaths.

 

[amexer]

I do sometimes log into political threads on here to see if I can learn anything about important issues. All I have learnt on here is " Live By The Sea" has a lot of friends of different religions and gender.

 

[WATFORD zero]

If anyone on here has been watching or reading the news and still feels they can support or side with one over the other then they should take a very long hard look at themselves.
Many people including women and children have died and are still dying at the hands of both sides.
This is not a game of football at which you should support one team and shout down the other.
FFS perpetrators on both sides are nothing but animalistic c***s. To say one is better than the other is to condone the violence and deaths.

Exactly, it's almost as if those animalistic c***s Hamas and Netanyahu need one another in order to keep their powerbases and couldn't give a f*** what happens to the innocents in the middle

 

[Diablo]

If anyone on here has been watching or reading the news and still feels they can support or side with one over the other then they should take a very long hard look at themselves.
Many people including women and children have died and are still dying at the hands of both sides.
This is not a game of football at which you should support one team and shout down the other.
FFS perpetrators on both sides are nothing but animalistic c***s. To say one is better than the other is to condone the violence and deaths.

Israeli children massacred at a Music festival !!! Israeli grandmothers and children killed and/or taken hostage !! This is what Hamas has done !! This is what has started this terrible war. Would you deny Israel the right to fight back?

 

[Bozza]

Israeli children massacred at a Music festival !!! Israeli grandmothers and children killed and/or taken hostage !! This is what Hamas has done !! This is what has started this terrible war. Would you deny Israel the right to fight back?

I won't try to pretend I know enough about this whole situation, but the one thing I am certain of, is that this absolutely isn't the "start of a terrible war".

It's the latest horrific incident of far too many carried out by both sides at different times.

This isn't about being #TeamIsrael nor #TeamPalastine, but #TeamStopKillingInnocentPeople.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Israeli children massacred at a Music festival !!! Israeli grandmothers and children killed and/or taken hostage !! This is what Hamas has done !! This is what has started this terrible war. Would you deny Israel the right to fight back?

A very simplistic and naive post.

 

[Zeberdi]

29 pages on, do we have a solution yet ?



Thought not.....

Of course not

- However, the merit of discourse and dialogue on the Israel-Hamas War, in the context of social media/chat forums, lies not in whether it comes up with a ‘solution’ but in its potential to educate, inform and even challenge some deeply held perspectives around some very complicated issues effecting all our lives ( eg. in the way, in the very least, understanding why and how we come to view people of different races and culture but also potentially deepening our understanding of the ramifications if the War in Gaza escalated into in a regional war in the Middle East).

More importantly- an open and active discussion where contributors seek (sometimes against previously held presumptions) to find a balanced viewpoint can serve to provide a framework in which these very emotive issues can be discussed hopefully in a friendly way (we are not doing too badly!) - it can also provide a platform where extremist/overly biased opinions can also be addressed and respectfully challenged if necessary - something that is clearly needed judging by some of the comments I’ve seen throughout this thread

AND BTW addressing some of these overly biased attitudes in the hope people will find a conciliatory, more informed approach when discussing the conflict actually is, in a broader context, part of the solution.

 

[Insel affe]

World Report 2022: Rights Trends in Israel and Palestine

www.hrw.org

World Report 2023: Rights Trends in Israel and Palestine

www.hrw.org

over and over again the same thing,

Israeli children massacred at a Music festival !!! Israeli grandmothers and children killed and/or taken hostage !! This is what Hamas has done !! This is what has started this terrible war. Would you deny Israel the right to fight back?

who is actually fighting back ?
They both are, all loss of life is desperately sad, I can never see an end to it.

 

[sparkie]

Israeli children massacred at a Music festival !!! Israeli grandmothers and children killed and/or taken hostage !! This is what Hamas has done !! This is what has started this terrible war. Would you deny Israel the right to fight back?

I am leaning towards "yes" now.

As far as I can see they've had some revenge on Gaza now.

The sooner the revenge stops and negotiations for hostage release starts the better things will be in my near-worthless opinion.

 

[portslade seagull]

Can't help thinking that Russia have somehow poked the fire to distract away from Ukraine

 

[Krafty]

29 pages on, do we have a solution yet ?

Thought not.....

In order to write a conclusion you need to consider both arguments and then evaluate the points of discussion.
Unfortunately, there are some individuals on here who are too incompetent to acknowledge the counter-argument and instead resort to disgusting insults - disrupting any potential conversations about this event.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Israeli children massacred at a Music festival !!! Israeli grandmothers and children killed and/or taken hostage !! This is what Hamas has done !! This is what has started this terrible war. Would you deny Israel the right to fight back?

Fight back to secure their borders ? Yes. Kill innocent Palestinians by bombing residential areas and refugee camps ? No.

 

[portslade seagull]

I won't try to pretend I know enough about this whole situation, but the one thing I am certain of, is that this absolutely isn't the "start of a terrible war".

It's the latest horrific incident of far too many carried out by both sides at different times.

This isn't about being #TeamIsrael nor #TeamPalastine, but #TeamStopKillingInnocentPeople.

Sadly both sides seem so entrenched in their own perfect ideologies without an unbiased intervention from the major players we will see this again and again.

 

[Justice]

Can't help thinking that Russia have somehow poked the fire to distract away from Ukraine

Hamas leaders met Putin at the Kremlin earlier this year. Whilst Russia isn’t taking a side in this they want to get closer to Iran.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Of course not

- However, the merit of discourse and dialogue on the Israel-Hamas War, in the context of social media/chat forums, lies not in whether it comes up with a ‘solution’ but in its potential to educate, inform and even challenge some deeply held perspectives around some very complicated issues effecting all our lives ( eg. in the way, in the very least, understanding why and how we come to view people of different races and culture but also potentially deepening our understanding of the ramifications if the War in Gaza escalated into in a regional war in the Middle East).

More importantly- an open and active discussion where contributors seek (sometimes against previously held presumptions) to find a balanced viewpoint can serve to provide a framework in which these very emotive issues can be discussed hopefully in a friendly way (we are not doing too badly!) - it can also provide a platform where extremist/overly biased opinions can also be addressed and respectfully challenged if necessary - something that is clearly needed judging by some of the comments I’ve seen throughout this thread

AND BTW addressing some of these overly biased attitudes in the hope people will find a conciliatory, more informed approach when discussing the conflict actually is, in a broader context, part of the solution.

Great post.

No one on NSC is going to (in the immortal words of Bozza) win the internet on this thread. I don't think any of us will be solving the Middle East crisis any time soon either. But reasonable discussion, real evidence, maybe even the perspective of witnesses, all of these things should be possible and should achieve slightly better educated, slightly more reasonable human beings.

Unfortunately this thread has been a race to the bottom from almost the start. Should it be on NSC? Yes, absolutely, it's probably the number one thing people are discussing worldwide right now, the biggest story on all the news channels. Like Covid and the Ukraine war it has the potential to affect us all. Should some of the more extreme opinions expressed on here be on NSC? Not without sanction.

A good debate enhances humanity and a bad one divides it. I live in hope of the former, even when people seem determined to deliver the latter.

 

[Bakero]

Out of interest have you asked any of your neighbours what they think about people that are gay ? What they think about people that might mock Mohammed ? Be interesting to hear there answers .

Doing the same things as you might do on a regular basis Is not necessarily an indication of whether they are as you put it ‘ People like us ‘

What peoples views on Gay people , free speech , etc is a truer indicator of ‘ People like us ‘. Ie people that share common liberal tolerant values.

"Like us" wasn't my phrase. I was quoting an openly islamophobic poster who was saying that muslims aren't people "like us".

Funnily enough, mocking Mohammed hasn't come up in conversation with my neighbours nor have I checked with the butcher what he thinks about gay marriage. What I do know is everybody seems to get on well enough and no one is openly hostile to any other group.

Two good friends of mine are in relationships with Moroccan muslims. Those partnerships certainly wouldn't work if there was any sign of intolerance.

 

[Algernon]

Israeli children massacred at a Music festival !!! Israeli grandmothers and children killed and/or taken hostage !! This is what Hamas has done !! This is what has started this terrible war. Would you deny Israel the right to fight back?

It's abhorrent what's happened and is happening, both historically and currently.
I don't agree that killing more innocents is the way forward but saying that, I have no idea what the answer is, however I can't believe it's the random slaughter of more civilians.
I understand why the desire for revenge but would you still think it acceptable if your loved ones were in the firing line? Which if you were Israeli I imagine they will be soon enough unfortunately.
Fight back targeting military targets if you absolutely must have retribution. Military personnel signed up to the possibility of conflict. Others didn't.
But I'd rather some clever sorts found a less heartbreaking way.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Exactly, it's almost as if those animalistic c***s Hamas and Netanyahu need one another in order to keep their powerbases and couldn't give a f*** what happens to the innocents in the middle

A Bibi 'spokesman' (a long term advisor) on R5 today made allegations so extreme that Naga said, minutes later, will be checked for their validity. I wonder if there has been an update.

The man stated that Hamas are the same as ISIS and during the present situation they have "beheaded Jewish babies"..

If this is a lie, which it almost certainly is since no other person has reported this, then what?

The man also said the solution is to remove Hamas as there is no scope for discussion. That means genocide.

I do hope this isn't official policy.

 

[Guinness Boy]

A Bibi 'spokesman' (a long term advisor) on R5 today made allegations so extreme that Naga said, minutes later, will be checked for their validity. I wonder if there has been an update.

The man stated that Hamas are the same as ISIS and during the present situation they have "beheaded Jewish babies"..

If this is a lie, which it almost certainly is since no other person has reported this, then what?

The man also said the solution is to remove Hamas as there is no scope for discussion. That means genocide.

I do hope this isn't official policy.

It may be for a while, but there's a lot to play out internally in Israel too, IMO. We've seen from that post from Hemed10 what the Jewish far right and hardcore settlers think. But they don't represent a majority view, they're merely propping up Netanyahu in a coalition government. There is another side to Israelis, liberal, open minded, even secular, certainly folk who believe in democracy and just want to work hard, do business and have fun in their down time. Family people. This describes many of the people I know in Tel Aviv.

Pressure will be coming from all sides. From families who want their hostages back - this always happens. From those opposed to the government, who defended the courts with protests or who see a responsibility for the escalation coming as much from their own government as Hamas.

Many make the mistake that all government policy is supported, that 'Israel' is homogenous. It most certainly isn't. Watching the reaction from ordinary Jews will be informative.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Great post.

No one on NSC is going to (in the immortal words of Bozza) win the internet on this thread. I don't think any of us will be solving the Middle East crisis any time soon either. But reasonable discussion, real evidence, maybe even the perspective of witnesses, all of these things should be possible and should achieve slightly better educated, slightly more reasonable human beings.

Unfortunately this thread has been a race to the bottom from almost the start. Should it be on NSC? Yes, absolutely, it's probably the number one thing people are discussing worldwide right now, the biggest story on all the news channels. Like Covid and the Ukraine war it has the potential to affect us all. Should some of the more extreme opinions expressed on here be on NSC? Not without sanction.

A good debate enhances humanity and a bad one divides it. I live in hope of the former, even when people seem determined to deliver the latter.

You're absolutely right.

I was only ever picked up at junior school 3 times by my maternal granddad. Once when my mum had a huge operation due to cancer, once when my dad had been notified of my uncle being killed and then for the funeral.

I posted earlier in this thread my uncle was killed by the PLO in 1974, I was 6 years old. My only real memory of him was sitting on his lap at Christmas, him playing the guitar. I also remember being told my dad had to go to Gatwick to oversee the return of my uncle's body and to be in bed before he returned.

The devastation to the family was immense, leaving a wife and two children, my nan and my dad suffering serious mental issues, my granddad dying a few years later, still young, a broken man.

Growing up, in my teenage years I would sit with my nan and we'd talk, mainly her and I'd listen. She said many years later our long conversations helped her come to terms with the loss of her son and the devastating affect it had on granddad and my dad.

My uncle worked for British intelligence services. He was the R & D director for APV based in Crawley and continued this pretence right up to his death. He was targeted while dining out with an Israeli Minister in a restaurant, a hand Granade tossed in his direction. The news was broadcast this was directed at the minister not my uncle, he's survived, no mention on the news of my uncle only that one person had lost their life.

My nan told me of their part in my uncle's "job", that they had been used as a safe house for documents etc. and indeed were vetted and signed the OSA.

My nan said my dad had gone to Gatwick that evening, to the cargo sheds, to indentify my uncle. His body was then taken to the undertakers. This is when a huge cover up began. My uncle's death was announced hiding all the details and that the funeral cortege would pass through Manor Royal. All the staff from APV along with other factories lined the roads. My nan said it was the hardest thing she could ever imagine to do but they did.

Years later my nan and grandad were told some of the truth of the events in Israel. The PLO had infiltrated British Intelligence. My aunt meantime had started a "new" life in the States.

The reason for posting this, the devastation suffered by dad and his side of the family (tbh I was far too young at the time to fully appreciate it) my nan never showed any anger to either side in the conflict but sadness that there was never any reconciliation and that remains 49 years on.

Some people on here should be embarrassed by the things they've posted.