[News] Middle East conflict

[Insel affe]

Is your post addressed to me?

you know it was, I’ve noticed you change your posts quite bit when you’ve been quizzed with a legitimate and fair question, you dont like it when people don’t agree with your narrative or perspective of things. You seem single minded and driving on a one track road, and your driving down it quite fast honking your horn all the way.

 

[nicko31]

I have no information that they did. What I have seen of Hamas funding is that they are mainly funded, supported and armed by Iran.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces - The Times of Israel

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Seagull58]

I even quoted the post you replied to make it obvious. @GT49er said the demos were "staged by those in favour of wiping Israel off the map". @Westdene Seagull asked which demos they were and you replied with an extract from the Hamas Charter and a comment about flags.

My post finished with "There were demonstrators openly supporting Hamas and waving Hamas flags, thereby advocating the elimination of Israel." My post did not say that the demos were organised by Hamas.

 

[aolstudios]

Offer a ceasefire, and meaningful discussions on a two state solution?

Hamas don't want a 2 state solution. Their stated purpose is to wipe out the Jews. All of them

 

[aolstudios]

Pretty crass remark. We’ve already been bombed
Bombs (of the Islamic suicide nature) have been detonated in London and Manchester in recent years, killing scores of innocent people.
I repeat, I don’t want to see any bombing on the streets of our country again.
The glorification of 1400 Jews being slaughtered and blatant acts of anti-semiticsm (racist views to you and me) are not welcome on our streets.

Filth

 

[Krafty]

If so, I agree absolutely that Hamas didn't organise the demos but there were Hamas supporters there and the Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
I didn't misrepresent the demos. I said there were Hamas supporters there.

Are you trying to express a point here or just continuing to state the irrelevant facts that everyone knows about?

EDIT: There were only a small percentage of Hamas supporters, the majority are people who want peace for innocent Palestinians!

 

[Seagull58]

you know it was, I’ve noticed you change your posts quite when you’ve been quizzed with a legitimate and fair question, you dont like it when people don’t agree with your narrative or perspective of things. You seem single minded and driving on a one track road, and your driving down it quite fast honking your horn all the way.

No, that's not what I do. What I have done on 3 or 4 occasions is make a post and then within 30 seconds or so I edit it and add more content. On a couple if occasions someone has started to respond to my post before I have edited it. I have not gone back and added more content AFTER seeing a response. In one case I even reied to inform the responder that I had added more content while they were replying

 

[Seagull58]

Are you trying to express a point here or just continuing to state the irrelevant facts that everyone knows about?

I am replying to posters replying to me. Sorry if its irrelevant

 

[Bozza]

Closing this for a while because the last few pages have been very poor, with little to no discussion about events unfolding, and just people largely trying to engage in cheap point-scoring.

 

[Giraffe]

Picking up a point made several pages ago, I thought this graphic really illustrates how dense the population is, particularly in the North.

 

[dsr-burnley]

A good question and one that can’t be fully answered in specifics without being informed of all the facts, understanding context or dialling down some of the hyperbole surrounding the question - no one would suggest Israel is not justified in responding in some way to the heinous and invasive attacks carried by Hamas - it would be insane to think she shouldn’t or wouldn’t but an appropriate response needs to be;

1. proportionate and measured and which considers the human and political cost of any such response
2. one that avoids the risk of further escalation and/or spilling out into a wider conflict
3. one that allows for diplomatic dialogue and ceasefire throughout
4. inclusive of a self-assessment as to whether an amendment of one’s of political stance might help reduce future antagonism or at least form the basis for a longer term peace strategy
5. conducted with due regard to the Geneva and Hague Conventions on war crimes and protecting civilian populations and in accordance international UN charters.
6. has a clear and attainable objective, with an exit strategy

In fact everything that does not characterise the current response!

What would be an appropriate Palestinian response to the way Israel is conducting her response to 10/7 !? is the glib comeback to a very loaded question. But we are not playing that silly tit for tat game are we?

Of course, if they were to fight under the Geneva Convention, then any and all Hamas prisoners in Israel could be shot immediately (enemy fighters on foreign soil not in uniform) while all the Israeli prisoners in Palestine - yes, even the old men and the babies - would be instantly released.

Obviously (to me, anyway) Hamas has t be removed. They are a fascist state, and even if their policy - in theory and in practice - of killing all Jews is found to be reasonable, surely their policy - in theory and in practice - of killing homosexuals isn't. Like Hitler in WW2 (and they are very like Hitler), the Palestinian people will be better for their removal, as well as the Israeli people.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Unfortunately have not learned much on here about any possibility of a solution on here apart aprt from not ending until Israel feel they have finished off Hamas which will result in thousands and thousands of deaths of innocent people Very sad.
Certainly WW2 would have ended if Hitler was killed 2 years earlier. Could the same be said here if able to kill the leaders of Hamas
Somebody please give me some hope for an ending to this.
I read in a book about Stalin that at a meeting with Churchill and USA president months before end of war Stalin said they had thousands of German Officers and were going to shoot them all. Uproar from Churchill who stopped him saying Britain did not act like that

I wouldn't be so sure. Hitler was not the only German, and there were plenty of Germans who supported him. If Hitler had not been there, another leader would have emerged from the rabble who followed his policies and led the country, perhaps more competently than Hitler did, and caused the war to go on longer.

The German nation as a whole did not recover until they were totally militarily defeated and the interim government was able to show the people just what an evil government they had been released from. (All German citizens were show films of Buchenwald and other concentration camps just so they knew what had gone on.)

 

[Zeberdi]

Of course, if they were to fight under the Geneva Convention, then any and all Hamas prisoners in Israel could be shot immediately (enemy fighters on foreign soil not in uniform) while all the Israeli prisoners in Palestine - yes, even the old men and the babies - would be instantly released.

Israel is not a ‘foreign soil’ to Palestinians - they either live in Israel or under Occupation by Israel -
My point re. the Hague and Geneva conventions was relating to the alleged war crimes being committed against Palestinian citizens and civilians in Gaza by Israel during the course of the Israel-Hamas War. The 1,500 or so Palestinians (mostly those protesting against the bombing of Gaza etc) rounded up in Israel since the 7 October are being held in detention with no due process - they are not ‘foreigners’ and mostly Palestinian citizens of Israel (not even from the OPT afaik) - it’s not the first time the Israel police have done this

Israeli Police Round Up Palestinian Protesters Out of Global Spotlight

Palestinian activists urged the world not to look away following the ceasefire in Gaza, as Israeli police began rounding up protesters.

theintercept.com

Obviously (to me, anyway) Hamas has t be removed. They are a fascist state, -

FACT CHECK - ’Hamas’ is not a ‘state’ - they are a terrorist organisation - and not ‘fascist’ - but radical Islamic fundamentalist - agree they need to be dealt with in some way

and even if their policy, in theory and in practice - of killing all Jews is found to be reasonable surely their policy - in theory and in practice - of killing homosexuals isn't.

I find this a really disgraceful comment - if you are seriously suggesting that ’killing all Jews’ in any context could be found reasonable … but ‘killing homosexuals isn’t’

Killing any group on the grounds of race, gender, ethnicity etc is heinous

Like Hitler in WW2 (and they are very like Hitler), the Palestinian people will be better for their removal, as well as the Israeli people.

Again, this is offensive - Please read @Bozza ‘s post above because it just looks like you are trolling the thread to get it shut again when most of us want to focus on the news and have a serious discussion (or feel free to use the newly provided ‘ignore thread’ option if you prefer )

 

[1066familyman]

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces - The Times of Israel

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

I think we're flogging a dead horse here. Despite posting repeated links to reports such as this, there are some on this thread who have their fingers in their ears and just want to keep stating how evil Hamas is, a fact which we all agree on anyway.

 

[Bakero]

I think we're flogging a dead horse here. Despite posting repeated links to reports such as this, there are some on this thread who have their fingers in their ears and just want to keep stating how evil Hamas is, a fact which we all agree on anyway.

Yup. A fair few people seem to comment without reading the thread and seemingly uninterested in the wider context of what's happening.

 

[aolstudios]

Of course, if they were to fight under the Geneva Convention, then any and all Hamas prisoners in Israel could be shot immediately (enemy fighters on foreign soil not in uniform) while all the Israeli prisoners in Palestine - yes, even the old men and the babies - would be instantly released.

Obviously (to me, anyway) Hamas has t be removed. They are a fascist state, and even if their policy - in theory and in practice - of killing all Jews is found to be reasonable, surely their policy - in theory and in practice - of killing homosexuals isn't. Like Hitler in WW2 (and they are very like Hitler), the Palestinian people will be better for their removal, as well as the Israeli people.

Good points

 

[Krafty]

Good points

They aren't, see post #2,326 by @Zeberdi

 

[Bakero]

This article chimed with me, especially after the recent comments on here about the demonstrations in London.

The thousands calling for a ceasefire and peace deserve better than abuse and belittlement | Aditya Chakrabortty

Politicians and much of the media ignore, stereotype and demonise protestors. This lack of engagement is a risk to us all, says Guardian columnist Aditya Chakrabortty

www.theguardian.com

I was particularly struck by the quotes related to the Iraq war protests 20 years ago:

Richard Littlejohn huffed that protesters were all “stuck in a students’ union timewarp”, while Barbara Amiel claimed in the Telegraph that their “real purpose was to attack Israel, America and free enterprise”. The Times warned that “the presence of many Muslim groups and masked anti-globalisation activists could provide cover for terrorists”.

 

[aolstudios]

They aren't, see post #2,326 by @Zeberdi

Ok mate

 

[Zeberdi]

This article chimed with me, especially after the recent comments on here about the demonstrations in London.

The thousands calling for a ceasefire and peace deserve better than abuse and belittlement | Aditya Chakrabortty

Politicians and much of the media ignore, stereotype and demonise protestors. This lack of engagement is a risk to us all, says Guardian columnist Aditya Chakrabortty

www.theguardian.com

I was particularly struck by the quotes related to the Iraq war protests 20 years ago:

Thanks @Bakero - it’s stuck behind a paywall (I don’t subscribe) but essentially what I have been saying for days with regard to stereotyping of demonstrators- so thank you for posting link.

Btw - the Guardian has lifted it’s paywall for the course of the Israel-Hamas War on it’s news pages which is good going from them but your article comes under editorial I think.


EDIT. there is/was no paywall - it’s the requirement to sign in that’s been removed! Apologies

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