[News] Middle East conflict

[Westdene Seagull]

Just read this from an Israeli citizen:

A relative comparison to Israelis murdered today would be, 7,300 people in the USA.

1,500 people in Britain.

Unfathomable what is happening here.

World sympathy will last for a bit and then they will justify it because: "the occupation".

For both historical and statistical reasons, this is our 9/11

We can all do percentages. Maybe you'd like to provide the percentage or number of innocent Palestinians murdered by Israel.

Don't even know why I'm bothering to converse with a Tory councillor who likes to tell racist jokes.

 

[nicko31]

We can all do percentages. Maybe you'd like to provide the percentage or number of innocent Palestinines murdered by Israel.

Don't even know why I'm bothering to converse with a Tory counillor who likes to tell racist jokes.

I guarantee there will be more Palastinians dead at the end of this tragedy. They usually stop when the ratio hits about 10:1

Sadly its never ending, Hamas is clearly a terror group but the latest iteration of Israeli government will only pour petrol on the fire.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I guarantee there will be more Palastinians dead at the end of this tragedy. They usually stop when the ratio hits about 10:1

Sadly its never ending, Hamas is clearly a terror group but the latest iteration of Israeli government will only pour petrol on the fire.

Absolutely agree. I'd also suggest the current Israeli government is nothing more than a terror group either. Domestically they are removing the power of the judicary .... something another 'political group' did in the 1930s in a country far far away. They always say history repeats itself.

 

[nicko31]

Absolutely agree. I'd also suggest the current Israeli government is nothing more than a terror group either. Domestically they are removing the power of the judicary .... something another 'political group' did in the 1930s in a country far far away. They always say history repeats itself.

Yes definitely seem to be going the Hungarian route, it’s creating huge division inside Israel

 

[Live by the sea]

This is appalling.

The post has been reported, but, on balance, it’s your genuine view and I’ll let it stand and NSC judge you (unless another mod disagrees).

However, I’d like you to tell me how children being phosphorus bombed is ‘being oppressed for the sake of it’.

I’ll wait.

To clarify what I meant was oppressing people because you can. Ie because of religion or another reason is terrible and without doubt one of the worst things you can do . However this case is unusual because the people involved are governed by a terrorist group and every month or every year some of these people are plotting to indiscriminately kill Israeli civilians .

The vast majority of Israelis would support a Palestinian state but their only massive concern is that if Palestinians had their own state it would very quickly turn into another Afghanistan and the militants in charge would turn their planes etc on Israel .

If you don’t appreciate that then I give up trying to explain it any further . You and dine other people on here seem to believe that both sides are equal in their behaviour , they are not . If Israel won’t to it could raze Gaza to the ground , but it wouldn’t because it has a code of conduct similar to the UK or other European countries . The Palestinians have no code of conduct and would try to kill everyone in Israel .

I’m sure your find a reason to ban me but I’m only saying what most western governments know which is why the European Union , UK, USA, Australia, etc are not putting pressure on Israel to agree a 2 state solution at the moment because it’s impossible with Hamas in charge .

 

[Zeberdi]

Maybe you'd like to provide the percentage or number of innocent Palestinines murdered by Israel.

https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/INTERACTIVE-Gaza-human-toll-1696686056.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80

Notwithstanding, the attack on Israel by Hamas was utterly deplorable and will only serve to wreak indiscriminate vengeance on the city of Gaza by Israel, bombing it back to the stone age where innocent Palestinian civilians will pay the price, especially after years of Occupation and blockades has left them with no place to go - if Israel’s vengeance resulted in Hamas being permanently crippled, you might think it justifiably proportionate to flatten parts of Gaza but it never does - it only serves to strengthen their resolve and convince otherwise moderate Palestinians living in the OPT that only the terrorist organisation can provide them with effective leadership and restore their freedom …

We will take mighty vengeance for this black day,” the Israeli leader said in a televised address. “We will take revenge for all the young people who lost their lives. We will target all of Hamas’s positions. We will turn Gaza into a deserted island. To the citizens of Gaza, I say. You must leave now. We will target each and every corner of the strip.”

Fears of a ground invasion of Gaza grow as Israel vows ‘mighty vengeance’

The Israeli military is still fighting with Hamas in parts of southern Israel after it launched an attack there.

www.aljazeera.com

The Israel-Palestinian conflict always carried a risk of spilling over into a regional war not least with Hezbollah over the border with Lebanon - but at a time when the West/NATO is getting ‘low’ on conventional weapons as a result of the war in Ukraine, I find that very chilling indeed …

US, NATO weapons stockpile 'dangerously low': USAF General - Breaking Defense

“So we don’t have nearly what we had at the heart of the Cold War. Now you add that we’re giving a lot of munitions away to the Ukrainians — which I think is exactly what we need to do — but now we’re getting dangerously low and sometimes, in some cases even too low that we don’t have enough,”...

breakingdefense.com

 

[Live by the sea]

Absolutely agree. I'd also suggest the current Israeli government is nothing more than a terror group either. Domestically they are removing the power of the judicary .... something another 'political group' did in the 1930s in a country far far away. They always say history repeats itself.

Accusing Israel of being a terror group is clearly an anti sematic statement but I’m not sadly not surprised coming from your mouth .

 

[Live by the sea]

We can all do percentages. Maybe you'd like to provide the percentage or number of innocent Palestinines murdered by Israel.

Don't even know why I'm bothering to converse with a Tory counillor who likes to tell racist jokes.

Being anti semetic isn’t any better though is it westdene seagull ?

 

[BadFish]

10 pages of talking about Israel before someone criticising their government get called anti-Semitic!!!

I think this may be some kind of record.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Accusing Israel of being a terror group is clearly an anti sematic statement but I’m not sadly not surprised coming from your mouth .

If a group used internationally banned weapons on civilians or even tageted civilians with conventional weapons would you not call them a terror group ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Being anti semetic isn’t any better though is it westdene seagull ?

How is attacking the Israeli goverment anti semetic ? Or are they beyond reproach ?

I assume you think all those protesting in Israel against the governments new law are anti semetic as well ?

 

[BadFish]

How is attacking the Israeli goverment anti semetic ? Or are they beyond reproach ?

I assume you think all those protesting in Israel against the governments new law are anti semetic as well ?

Its a very clever and very clandestine propaganda strategy that is designed to avoid criticism of Israel and stifle discussion about their human rights breaches.

Or a bunch of simpletons who can't defend the Israeli government's actions so they avoid it by playing the antisemitism card.

I am not quite sure which but I guess the end result is the same.

 

[Live by the sea]

If a group used internationally banned weapons on civilians or even tageted civilians with conventional weapons would you not call them a terror group ?

Has any western country said that or even intimated that ? No - Almost all western countries have shown support for Israel and heavily criticised the Palestinians.

Using banned weapons occasionally and in specific circumstances is not without precedent, The USA in the past have done it and so had the UK , are they terror groups as well ?

All of the retaliation by Israel has been on specific sites relating to Hamas and the things they need to control Gaza .

You only see the bad in Israel , you never acknowledge the 90% good . Like most countries , however you concentrate on any negatives you can find and never talk about all the good things and careful things they do , but of course you not heavily prejudiced are you .,,,,

 

[Zeberdi]

To clarify what I meant was oppressing people because you can. Ie because of religion or another reason is terrible and without doubt one of the worst things you can do . However this case is unusual because the people involved are governed by a terrorist group and every month or every year some of these people are plotting to indiscriminately kill Israeli civilians .

Yes, Hamas are regarded as a ‘terrorist’ group and no doubt carry out militant activities in Israel and from Gaza but they are also a political party that for the majority of Palestinians provide the only means of effective resistance to a brutal occupation -

There IS brutality on BOTH sides, including by Hamas on moderate Palestinians who would otherwise work with Israel to end the Occupation peacefully

Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict

Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International. ‘Strangling...

www.amnesty.org

Again, I suggest you read some of the links I posted up thread on Israel’s treatment of CIVILIAN Palestinians living in the OPT

The Palestinians have no code of conduct and would try to kill everyone in Israel .

You realise how uninformed you sound? - time after time on this thread you have made sweeping statements tantamount to racial, cultural and religious intolerance.

I am finding it very distasteful.

 

[Live by the sea]

I’m not going to add any further comments to this post as it just infuriates me that posters have free range to post anti semetic comments on here about Israel but if that happened to any other country , the mods would be up in arms .

Clearly treating Israel fairly and not holding them up to standards they don’t hold other countries up to isn’t of any interest to the mods on NSC.

Happy to use their computer technology and medical technology though no doubt !

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Has any western country said that or even intimated that ? No - Almost all western countries have shown support for Israel and heavily criticised the Palestinians.

Using banned weapons occasionally and in specific circumstances is not without precedent, The USA in the past have done it and so had the UK , are they terror groups as well ?

All of the retaliation by Israel has been on specific sites relating to Hamas and the things they need to control Gaza .

You only see the bad in Israel , you never acknowledge the 90% good . Like most countries , however you concentrate on any negatives you can find and never talk about all the good things and careful things they do , but of course you not heavily prejudiced are you .,,,,

So you agree with the use of illegal weapons just as long as it's a side you support e.g. Israel, the States or the UK.

For the avoidance of doubt, yes, if ANY government uses illegal weapons or targets civilians then they are a terrorist government. Both the US and UK did so in Afgan and that makes the governments of the day terror groups.

 

[portlock seagull]

The differences on this thread alone show why there can never be lasting peace in the ME. Not until one side obliterates the other, which in fairness, is the goal of one if not both. Depressing.

 

[Live by the sea]

Yes, Hamas are regarded as a ‘terrorist’ group and no doubt carry out militant activities in Israel and from Gaza but they are also a political party that for the majority of Palestinians provide the only means of effective resistance to a brutal occupation -

There IS brutality on BOTH sides, including by Hamas on moderate Palestinians who would otherwise work with Israel to end the Occupation peacefully

Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict

Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International. ‘Strangling...

www.amnesty.org

Again, I suggest you read some of the links I posted up thread on Israel’s treatment of CIVILIAN Palestinians living in the OPT


You realise how uninformed you sound? - time after time on this thread you have made sweeping statements tantamount to racial, cultural and religious intolerance.

I am finding it very distasteful.

Because kidnapping women and children and killing them and celebrating on the streets of Gaza by handing out coffee and sweets to people isn’t distasteful as you put it . It’s not racial or cultural intolerance to accept murder as fine because it’s the Palestinians doing it .

 

[knekkebrød]

To clarify what I meant was oppressing people because you can. Ie because of religion or another reason is terrible and without doubt one of the worst things you can do . However this case is unusual because the people involved are governed by a terrorist group and every month or every year some of these people are plotting to indiscriminately kill Israeli civilians .

The vast majority of Israelis would support a Palestinian state but their only massive concern is that if Palestinians had their own state it would very quickly turn into another Afghanistan and the militants in charge would turn their planes etc on Israel .

If you don’t appreciate that then I give up trying to explain it any further . You and dine other people on here seem to believe that both sides are equal in their behaviour , they are not . If Israel won’t to it could raze Gaza to the ground , but it wouldn’t because it has a code of conduct similar to the UK or other European countries . The Palestinians have no code of conduct and would try to kill everyone in Israel .

I’m sure your find a reason to ban me but I’m only saying what most western governments know which is why the European Union , UK, USA, Australia, etc are not putting pressure on Israel to agree a 2 state solution at the moment because it’s impossible with Hamas in charge .

Why would a palestinian state turn into Afghanistan? Palestinians are a diverse people just like us. Some are very religious, about 20% are christian, but most people just want to live a normal life with dreams about a future for their families, to travel to the mediteranian sea in the weekends, play football, argue about Messi vs Christiano and so on. You can buy beer, wine and vodka in normal shops a lot of places in Palestine. Their biggest brewery is Taybeh. Check it out! =)

 

[BadFish]

I’m not going to add any further comments to this post as it just infuriates me that posters have free range to post anti semetic comments on here about Israel but if that happened to any other country , the mods would be up in arms .

Clearly treating Israel fairly and not holding them up to standards they don’t hold other countries up to isn’t of any interest to the mods on NSC.

Happy to use their computer technology and medical technology though no doubt !

Before you go, can you just explain why you think that criticising the Israeli government is anti semetic?