Menin Gate - The Last Post

[BHAFC_Pandapops]

I went in 2006. Very poignant and well worth it.

 

[Hastings gull]

Big shout to Langemark as part of a trip out there. Very dark place, mostly mass graves due to them being on the "losing" side. A load of working class kids sent to die for their country, no different from the British.

I have not been for a few years, but I didn't find it dark at all. The German equivalent of the war Graves Commission had erected a museum there, albeit rather temporary-looking, but informative all the same. Langemark is quite symbolic in Germany, as it is the resting place for thousands of young people who rejoiced at the outbreak of war, and rushed to join up, ,often incited by older folk. The recruits were very raw and died in 1914, just after the war began. If you have ever seen the original film All Quiet on the western front, this is depicted as the frenzied teacher urges the class to fight.
I did think that you have rather spoilt your piece by introducing a political element to it -the losses during WW1 were spread proportionately throughout the social strata - young subalterns on the Western front had on average life expectancy of about 4 months.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

I have not been for a few years, but I didn't find it dark at all. The German equivalent of the war Graves Commission had erected a museum there, albeit rather temporary-looking, but informative all the same. Langemark is quite symbolic in Germany, as it is the resting place for thousands of young people who rejoiced at the outbreak of war, and rushed to join up, ,often incited by older folk. The recruits were very raw and died in 1914, just after the war began. If you have ever seen the original film All Quiet on the western front, this is depicted as the frenzied teacher urges the class to fight.
I did think that you have rather spoilt your piece by introducing a political element to it -the losses during WW1 were spread proportionately throughout the social strata - young subalterns on the Western front had on average life expectancy of about 4 months.

Disagree, I do find the way the Germans do it much more dark and about sorrow rather than the British ones. And you can't deny there's something much more sad about the way they are minimum 5 to a grave, and one grave has many thousands in. I think it's a lovely spot, but it is very sobering.

I think the reason Langemark is so symbolic is a specific battle in 1914 where, like you say, a load of students lost to some experienced professional British soldiers. I believe a reference to it is still inscribed above the tunnel at the Olympic stadium in Berlin.

Apologies if it seemed particularly political. I didn't really mean it to be a class issue, you are right to point out that pro-rata the deaths were spread out. However this still means that the vast majority were working class, and these are the ones who had the least vested in the war, and the least understanding of what it was about. Anyway, working class or not, my point is I wouldn't personally differentiate between those that lost their lives on either side.

 

[atfc village]

And one slight correction if I may Barry. The ceremony hasn't been carried out every night since 1928 for the simple reason that the Germans occupied Ypres during WW2 and they weren't so keen on the tradition!

But on the day that Ypres was liberated by the Poles the ceremony started again that evening, even though there was still fighting elsewhere in the town.

And it has been carried out every night since then. Long may it continue.

During the 2nd World War occupation ,the last post continued at Brookwood Cemetery every night for the duration .Been on twice to Menin Gate ,the 2nd time our Legion standard bearer was on on duty for the last post .The battlefield tours are very good the two guides we had on Ledger tours were Ian Henry and Vic Piuk were top chaps too.

 

[atfc village]

They shall not grow old as we are left to grow old.Age shall not weary them,nor the years condem.At the going down of the sun and in the morning.We will remember them.

 

[Shuggie]

Ive been many times, in August this year for the commemoration of the start of the war and going right back to the early 60's with my Grandfather who was in the battle of Mons and went right through the war.

Churchill described the Menin Gate as the most holy place in the British Empire.

It's an amazing place to visit and a very emotional experience. There are more and more people going every year, especially now with all the publicity about WW1.

But personally I found it most moving when the ceremony didn't attract many people. Yes it's worth seeing when there are hundreds there but somehow on the days when I went when there were three men and a dog, in the pouring rain, just a few people and the Belgian Fireman buglers it was somehow even more poignant. One of the hotel owners told me she felt it had become more of a tourist attraction than a simple ceremony of remembrance, which it was what it was supposed to be. I'm not sure she's right but I can see what she means. There's always a trade off between just a few people having a simple ceremony and the benefit of large numbers of people learning about the war. On balance the more people that go the better, as long as the authorities can keep the simplicity.

But I'm very glad I went when it was just my Grandad and me with a few of his chums in the Old Contemptibles.

We will remember them

Agree with everyone that it's an amazing place. Just walking up, down, through and around the gate with all the thousands of names of those who have no known grave (55,000 of them) is quite a moving experience. All those individuals, all that sacrifice, all that waste. And, yes, it was more touching when it was one man and his dog (the wife won't appreciate that).

I think your hotelier might have a point about it becoming more of a tourist attraction. I think this is inevitable as connections with the living begin to fade into the past. It's 5 years since Harry Patch died (last Tommy who was in the trenches). One day it will be like the ruins in Rome but for now there are still some like yourself who actually knew someone. Soon it will only be people who knew someone who knew someone.

It's not just the growth in numbers and the passage of time, it's also the change in behaviours. Just like the football, some people feel compelled to get their iPhones etc out and see the event through the back of a camera. I will never understand why they don't just experience it at first hand. But then your Granddad probably had difficulty understanding our generation.

We will remember them ... but not as individuals for much longer

 

[Hastings gull]

Disagree, I do find the way the Germans do it much more dark and about sorrow rather than the British ones. And you can't deny there's something much more sad about the way they are minimum 5 to a grave, and one grave has many thousands in. I think it's a lovely spot, but it is very sobering.

I think the reason Langemark is so symbolic is a specific battle in 1914 where, like you say, a load of students lost to some experienced professional British soldiers. I believe a reference to it is still inscribed above the tunnel at the Olympic stadium in Berlin.

Apologies if it seemed particularly political. I didn't really mean it to be a class issue, you are right to point out that pro-rata the deaths were spread out. However this still means that the vast majority were working class, and these are the ones who had the least vested in the war, and the least understanding of what it was about. Anyway, working class or not, my point is I wouldn't personally differentiate between those that lost their lives on either side.

Of course it is rather sad that they are 5 to a grave, but not sure this has anything to do with the Germans -the cemetery was started very soon after hostilities - not quite sure when - and of course to the Belgians they were not exactly flavour of the month! The other graves from the German side, so to speak, say in Normandy, have individual named plots much like the British ones. It may simply be a question if finance to keep everything maintained. Thanks for the clarification -I too, all these years later, would not differentiate, particularly as my mum is German!

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Of course it is rather sad that they are 5 to a grave, but not sure this has anything to do with the Germans -the cemetery was started very soon after hostilities - not quite sure when - and of course to the Belgians they were not exactly flavour of the month! The other graves from the German side, so to speak, say in Normandy, have individual named plots much like the British ones. It may simply be a question if finance to keep everything maintained. Thanks for the clarification -I too, all these years later, would not differentiate, particularly as my mum is German!

You're right about the mass grave thing. But I think oak leaves rather than poppies, tall trees rather than letting the sunlight in, no flowers, dark stone rather than white. It's all a bit less about "glory".

 

[pasty]

I understand it is a bit of a classic "school trip"

Yep, went as part of my 20th Century History O-level course back in 1980. Very moving.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The British church in Ypres is well worth a visit. Just up from the gate is a sweet shop owned by the family who looked after the church during the war. Had the pleasure of meeting the sister she was 104 and so proud.

 

[stripeyshark]

It's something I believe every Briton should do. Some good advice has been given on here already.

I would say if you have any relatives etc. that you think might be engraved on the walls of the gate, do some research before to help you find them (they're in regiment order but some higher ranks have their own sections). Oh, and get there EARLY. There's a decent bar on the corner by the gate where you can watch the crowds build up and pick your moment to go and stand there.

 

[pastafarian]

If the crowds are too big Tuesday night,head for the main square.a large screen has/will be put up there to aid viewing at 11AM and in the evening.

 

[atfc village]

2 relations named on The Menin Gate and 1 at Thiepval .The sad thing is the relation on the Thiepval was 46 and his brother who was 17 died 2 months later,though he has a known grave at Becondel Becourt on The Somme.

 

[The Spanish]

View attachment 59983

Tyne Cot Cemetery. The resting place for nearly 12,000 servicemen. The two flat-topped graves in the foreground are two of the four German graves in the cemetery. Just goes to show the absurdity of war.

It was Tyne cot that did me. Heartbreaking. We have no idea how lucky we are, and how much we owe those lads.

 

[Barry Izbak]

Thanks Guys. Great feedback. I believe the coach trip arrive around lunchtime in time for a look around the museum and a bit of lunch. Not sure we will get out of Ypres itself or to Tyne Cot sadly.

I already worked out it was going to be busy on Tuesday. Will try and get a good position and promise to report back

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

Thanks Guys. Great feedback. I believe the coach trip arrive around lunchtime in time for a look around the museum and a bit of lunch. Not sure we will get out of Ypres itself or to Tyne Cot sadly.

I already worked out it was going to be busy on Tuesday. Will try and get a good position and promise to report back

There'll be a big parade and ceremony at the Menin Gate at 11:00 am on Tuesday, the 11th is a public holiday in Belgium. I'm guessing you won't be there in time for that.

But the 8pm ceremony will take place as usual but it will be packed, most people will go to the evening one as well.

If you want to eat either do so before the ceremony or at least try and book somewhere before you go to the gate otherwise everywhere will be full. But most places won't let you book, although you could try Old Tom's, speak to Christine the manager/owner and say a friend recommended you go there. She probably won't remember my name (Martyn Swan) but she will remember me from August, and I've been there a few times. My Grandfather who fought there was called Tom.

 

[ALBION28]

It's something I believe every Briton should do. Some good advice has been given on here already.

I would say if you have any relatives etc. that you think might be engraved on the walls of the gate, do some research before to help you find them (they're in regiment order but some higher ranks have their own sections). Oh, and get there EARLY. There's a decent bar on the corner by the gate where you can watch the crowds build up and pick your moment to go and stand there.

i would place a visit on the National curriculum so each and every youngster would learn from and experience Ypres. I have visited regularly since 1971 and ran school trips every year, when I worked (now retired) at Ifield School in Crawley. We visited the Menin Gate last, but during the day, Hill 60, Langemark, Sanctuary Wood, Tyne Cott,the Cloth Hall (Flanders Museum). Being able to tell those youngsters about my own family, James (named on the Menin Gate) and William. Both were blown up at hill 60, James died, William survived being found buried up to his neck with his head split open as a German tried to finish the job. (he never blamed the Germans for this, it was just how it was) He survived to 1917 until killed at Arras. Although both were Sussex lads they were in the East Yorkshire Regiment their names are on memorials in both Sussex (Crawley) and Yorkshire (Beverley). I know how many of those youngsters really appreciated gaining an understanding of the consequence of war. Always remembered.

 

[vegster]

I was out in Ypres in March and showed my respects.It was pretty busy but the ceremony was incredibly moving. We owe so much to those brave lads.
But, lets not forget the Belgians stood and fought in the first few weeks against impossible odds and suffered huge casualties too. The Belgians were ordered to put down their weapons by the Germans as they wanted to attack France through the less well defended Franco/Belgian border and push through to the Channel ports and prevent any reinforcements from Britain in a quick decisive thrust that they hoped would win the war. The Belgians bravely stood and fought and gave time for France and the UK to mobilise.

 

[Shuggie]

If you missed this, well worth a listen. Hard to believe the programme was made 53 years ago and ended up as a film featuring The West Pier ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008hvwk


"Producer and writer Charles Chilton's forgotten radio masterpiece telling the story of the First World War through the songs sung by soldiers.

It was inspired by Chilton's personal quest to learn about his father, who was killed in 1918 aged 19 and whom he'd never met. Chilton went on to adapt the programme with Joan Littlewood into the 1963 landmark stage musical Oh What A Lovely War.

First broadcast on the BBC Home Service in 1961"

 

[spence]

I'm ashamed to say i thought the Yanks were the original creator of the "Last Post" when in fact they stole it from us. I was also shocked that an English guy wrote "Amazing Grace". I always thought that was Afro American too.