Menin Gate - The Last Post

[Grombleton]

I've not been out to Ypres, but like many places synonymous with the first and second world wars I do want to go and try and understand what went on. Mrs Grombleton's grandfather is a historian and has written books about Horsham's part in the war, I keep meaning to ask him to accompany us out to places like Ypres, Auschwitz, Madjanek etc.

I feel I owe it to myself to learn more.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xZkhlKFyDEw Did the circuit last year with my son...in remembrance of my grandfather who was a Brighton boy..(went to Queens Park school and his name is on the war memorial at the school...joined in 1915, Royal Sussex Reg; died August 30th whilst serving with the Royal Surrey Reg; he died from shrapnel wounds.

No apoligies for posting this song again...it covers all wars and is very moving

 

[Poppett63]

I too will be on the coach tomorrow morning, see you then.

 

[Barry Izbak]

I too will be on the coach tomorrow morning, see you then.

Cool. We are climbing aboard at Preston Park. See you there

 

[cunning fergus]

Disagree, I do find the way the Germans do it much more dark and about sorrow rather than the British ones. And you can't deny there's something much more sad about the way they are minimum 5 to a grave, and one grave has many thousands in. I think it's a lovely spot, but it is very sobering.

I think the reason Langemark is so symbolic is a specific battle in 1914 where, like you say, a load of students lost to some experienced professional British soldiers. I believe a reference to it is still inscribed above the tunnel at the Olympic stadium in Berlin.

Apologies if it seemed particularly political. I didn't really mean it to be a class issue, you are right to point out that pro-rata the deaths were spread out. However this still means that the vast majority were working class, and these are the ones who had the least vested in the war, and the least understanding of what it was about. Anyway, working class or not, my point is I wouldn't personally differentiate between those that lost their lives on either side.

Presumably you wouldn't differentiate between the deaths arising from either side involved in the Easter uprising either?

That's noble of you...........

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Presumably you wouldn't differentiate between the deaths arising from either side involved in the Easter uprising either?

That's noble of you...........

I know.

 

[cunning fergus]

I know.

Glad to hear it, for the working class that survived the war life remained tough, just like these poor buggers...........

The Black and Tans ‘have gone down in history as the British equivalent of the Turkish bashi-bazouks or the German Freikorps.’ A 10,000-strong police force scrambled from unemployed, working-class ex-servicemen in urban Britain, the Black and the Tans – a sobriquet taken from the force’s motley uniform of army khaki and police tunics – were notorious for their brutality and violence during the Irish War of Independence.

http://www.petergeoghegan.com/?p=488

Working class on both sides, no differentiation..............

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Glad to hear it, for the working class that survived the war life remained tough, just like these poor buggers...........

The Black and Tans ‘have gone down in history as the British equivalent of the Turkish bashi-bazouks or the German Freikorps.’ A 10,000-strong police force scrambled from unemployed, working-class ex-servicemen in urban Britain, the Black and the Tans – a sobriquet taken from the force’s motley uniform of army khaki and police tunics – were notorious for their brutality and violence during the Irish War of Independence.

http://www.petergeoghegan.com/?p=488

Working class on both sides, no differentiation..............

The Black and Tans were nothing to do with the Easter Rising. And incidentally this has nothing to do with the Menin Gate or cemeteries around Ypres so forgive me for not getting involved.

 

[fat old seagull]

Ive been many times, in August this year for the commemoration of the start of the war and going right back to the early 60's with my Grandfather who was in the battle of Mons and went right through the war.

Churchill described the Menin Gate as the most holy place in the British Empire.

It's an amazing place to visit and a very emotional experience. There are more and more people going every year, especially now with all the publicity about WW1.

But personally I found it most moving when the ceremony didn't attract many people. Yes it's worth seeing when there are hundreds there but somehow on the days when I went when there were three men and a dog,in the pouring rain, just a few people and the Belgian Fireman buglers it was somehow even more poignant. One of the hotel owners told me she felt it had become more of a tourist attraction than a simple ceremony of remembrance, which it was what it was supposed to be. I'm not sure she's right but I can see what she means. There's always a trade off between just a few people having a simple ceremony and the benefit of large numbers of people learning about the war. On balance the more people that go the better, as long as the authorities can keep the simplicity.

But I'm very glad I went when it was just my Grandad and me with a few of his chums in the Old Contemptibles.

We will remember them

All of that...and in January or February especially in the rain, it seems like the most meaningful thing you've ever done.

 

[cunning fergus]

The Black and Tans were nothing to do with the Easter Rising. And incidentally this has nothing to do with the Menin Gate or cemeteries around Ypres so forgive me for not getting involved.

Oh but it does, your sentiment that you don't differentiate between the British or German working class dead in WW1 means that you deny those who died the cause that they died for at that time.

It may be fashionable these days to focus on historical events like WW1 through a paradigm of empathy, however that is to wilfully ignore the facts.

By all means forgive the Germans, but we should not forget that it is what they did that lead to the slaughter throughout Europe, including the western front that means the cemeteries this thread is about are stuffed to the gunnels with our forebears.

Your sentiments are not new by the way, you are just another John Ross Campbell...........