Mediterranean migrant deaths and CMD.

[Leekbrookgull]

Maybe i am reading this situation wrongly,but until the'West' removed Gaddaffi Libya althrough ruled by a dictator was not in a state of cival war and chaos where as usual the innocent pay the biggest price,so much for your Arab Spring uprising Mr Cameron.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32382962

 

[spence]

I really don't know what the answer to this is. Must be awful for people trying to flee war torn countries and taking a gamble with the high seas. At the same time if the west start to throw money at rescues and extra patrols etc it could well lead to more people trying their luck to cross. Dreadful situation.

 

[Ernest]

They are only war torn because we bombed the f**k out of them first

 

[carlzeiss]

Katie Hopkins has her own solution to the problem .

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/18/katie-hopkins-russell-bra_n_7091674.html

 

[Czechmate]

Maybe i am reading this situation wrongly,but until the'West' removed Gaddaffi Libya althrough ruled by a dictator was not in a state of cival war and chaos where as usual the innocent pay the biggest price,so much for your Arab Spring uprising Mr Cameron.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32382962

Agreed , the West going in 'gunho' without understanding the people , the cultures , religion and just thinking western way's , not all democracies work look at us , possibilities of England being partly run by the Jocks !

 

[Dave the OAP]

So basically Europe are taking in all these poor people fleeing oppression etc, and some of them are dying and now everyone is wringing their hands and saying that something needs to be done to help these poor unfortunates....then we get pictures and film of the poor unfortunates who have ended up in Calais wanting to come here.

So if Europe agree to take more and more of these poor buggers, should we not put the people in Calais on ferry boats and let them in? I know UKIP will implode but we need to take our share!

 

[Hastings gull]

They are only war torn because we bombed the f**k out of them first

Your description is far too simplistic. As far as I can recall, we wanted to be rid of Gadaffi, who certainly had form in order for them to bring about democracy, and thus hopefully a better life for Libyans living under dictatorship. Perhaps on hindsight, this was unrealistic as it is probably almost impossible to graft on a democracy where there is little appreciation of and possibly little willingness for it. Since then, have not rival factions emerged to turn on each other? I suppose that this is our fault? I gather that Libya is used a starting-off point for Ethiopians and Somalis - I suppose that their determination in Somalia to kill each other is also our fault.

 

[carlzeiss]

So basically Europe are taking in all these poor people fleeing oppression etc, and some of them are dying and now everyone is wringing their hands and saying that something needs to be done to help these poor unfortunates....then we get pictures and film of the poor unfortunates who have ended up in Calais wanting to come here.

So if Europe agree to take more and more of these poor buggers, should we not put the people in Calais on ferry boats and let them in? I know UKIP will implode but we need to take our share!

Do we not already have our share here ?

 

[GT49er]

Do we not already have our share here ?

Beat me to it!

 

[Bruntburger]

These migrant ships are no doubt organised by the different fighting factions to make money, just like the illegal opium and oil trade.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Your description is far too simplistic. As far as I can recall, we wanted to be rid of Gadaffi, who certainly had form in order for them to bring about democracy, and thus hopefully a better life for Libyans living under dictatorship. Perhaps on hindsight, this was unrealistic as it is probably almost impossible to graft on a democracy where there is little appreciation of and possibly little willingness for it. Since then, have not rival factions emerged to turn on each other? I suppose that this is our fault? I gather that Libya is used a starting-off point for Ethiopians and Somalis - I suppose that their determination in Somalia to kill each other is also our fault.

Hastings,good points however using the word Hindsight is a wrong choice.after the 'removal' of Saddam the warning signs were all there to see,surely ?

 

[symyjym]

Encouraging uprisings and the toppling of Middle East Governments has been a disastrous foreign policy. Iraq, Libya and Syria were all non secular countries and Christians lived without being in fear of their lives, and actually played a role within the respective governments.

Unfortunately because Christianity has been adopted by the West, extremists see it as a Western religion, and therefore all Christians are their enemy and are now being persecuted for it.

 

[beorhthelm]

why the stupid politicialisation of this issue? the west didnt cause the arab spring, and our involvment once it started in those countries was minimal. maybe that minor intervention lead to the overthrow of Gaddafi, maybe not, but by then he'd already lost power and the country was no longer a single state. and the people arent from Libya or other arab countries necessarily, they are from all over Africa, including all those countrys we dont bomb because apparently theres no oil so no point.

the way i read it at the moment, some would have us intervening in every African and Middle Eastern country to stablise them or remove their dictators, while doing so in a manner that doesnt interfer with their local traditions and politics, and isnt intervention. oh.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Do we not already have our share here ?

. Not according to the latest figures compared to Germany/ France and and the combines Scandinavian countries

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

. Not according to the latest figures compared to Germany/ France and and the combines Scandinavian countries

Link

 

[symyjym]

These migrant ships are no doubt organised by the different fighting factions to make money, just like the illegal opium and oil trade.

Highly likely, and what also concerns me is if it could also be used to export foreign extremists to Europe disguised as migrants. A modern day Trojan horse to deploy an IS army on our shores.

 

[BadFish]

Do we not already have our share here ?

No, none of us do (especially Australia). There are millions of them.

 

[symyjym]

....our involvment once it started in those countries was minimal. maybe that minor intervention lead to the overthrow of Gaddafi, maybe not, ............

Apart from destroying his military capability against the rebels we encouraged to uprise, and the final bombing of his final escape convoy it had nothing to do with us

 

[Barrel of Fun]

The ship sets sail from somewhere. They need to be held culpable for setting those ships off.

I'd rather Europe clubs together than lets hundreds of people drown.

Make it easier for them to travel and perhaps the human traffickers will not make much blood money.

 

[GT49er]

I remember being flamed on here at the time Gadaffi was getting his come-uppance for suggesting that the 'Arab Spring' wasn't actually the burgeoning of freedom and democracy in the middle east. Be that as it may, I think many of our foreign policy decisions in regard to the middle east have been wrong, the invasion of Iraq being one of them.
However, the blame for these tragic deaths in the Med. is the direct responsibility of criminals who have no respect for human life taking the life savings of poor people and grossly overloading them on to unseaworthy craft and trying to illegally smuggle them into Europe.