Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
I didn’t realize it was a random Boris thought. I had thought it was a random Brighton Lines thought
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[Politics] May 2021 local elections and Hartlepool by-election
- Thread starter Leekbrookgull
- Start date
I didn’t realize it was a random Boris thought. I had thought it was a random Brighton Lines thoughtNeville's Breakfast
Well-known member
This. Tired of being called stupid and tired of the Brexit and Tory haters.
Brian Fantana
Well-known member
Without getting caught up in any political arguments too much, this is my take on it from speaking to others who live in the constituency too:
1. Brexit. Boris smashed it across the North with his promise to deliver Brexit. Whether or not the net result has been good on that front or not, he’s kept that promise so people who voted for the Brexit party here in 2019 (and there were a lot of them) are now voting Tory.
2. Ben Houchen. He’s the mayor of Tees Valley and is a Tory. It caused quite a storm 4 years ago when he was elected, BUT party politics aside he’s been absolutely brilliant for the region. He’s delivered a massive amount, so that’s definitely swayed a lot of people to vote Tory at this by-election.
3. Keir Starmer. So many people up here cannot stand him. They have no idea what he stands for, except for opposing anything Boris likes or does.
4. Without being too brutal, an awful lot of the ex-miners, who’d never vote Tory, are dead. The younger generations here don’t have the same attitude.
5. Boris. Yes, he’s massively divisive but people up here LOVE him. He might have nothing in common with them, but he actually puts in the miles and visits here quite a lot. They like that he’s a maverick who does things differently. I witnessed his visit to Seaton Carew earlier in the week, and I’ve never seen a reception like it. It was genuinely like a rockstar coming to town. I still can’t pin down his exact appeal to people here, but it’s genuine and cross-age and cross-gender.
6. The Labour candidate they chose was someone who used to be the MP in Stockton, and lost to the Tories in 2019 because he did absolutely sod all for the constituency.
7. The undeniable success of the vaccine program.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Outgoing Labour leader of Amber Valley council, Chris Emmas-Williams:
“The voters have let us down. I hope they don’t live to regret it.”
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/defeated-labour-councillor-the-voters-have-let-us-down-
“The voters have let us down. I hope they don’t live to regret it.”
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/defeated-labour-councillor-the-voters-have-let-us-down-
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,859
I suppose there are some similarities between him and me.
I too often blurt out random, unintelligible, and inaccurate thoughts that come into my head. Only Johnson gets more 'likes' than me when he does it.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Just seen some Labour Party person on Sky say that sacking Angela Raynor is wrong because she is a former carer and trade unionist. You couldn’t make it up. By contrast a lady from Hartlepool was shown commenting that Keir Starmer cared more about Boris’ wallpaper than real issues. Labour supporters, call her and others thick all you like but you would be better advised to listen.
And there you have it.
midnight_rendezvous
Well-known member
Here you are. I’ve sourced as many as I can find. Some differ from the original sauce, some figures have been updated or changed. Some aren’t exact but back up the overall point. For those with no sources, I couldn’t find the ones I used previously so feel free to either ignore them or take them with a massive pinch of salt, as is your prerogative.
1,000 sure start centres closed (https://www.eyalliance.org.uk/news/2018/04/1000-childrens-centres-have-closed-2009)
780 libraries closed. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....-almost-800-libraries-since-2010-figures-show)
700 football pitches closed. (https://www.gmb.org.uk/news/more-700-council-football-pitches-lost-austerity-trashes-next-generation)
Food bank use up 2,400%. (https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-people-use-food-banks/)
Homelessness up 1,000%. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30952288.html?type=amp)
Rough sleeping up 1,200% (https://www.homeless.org.uk/sites/d...ough sleeping statistics for England 2019.pdf)
Bedroom tax caused mass evictions. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../bedroom-tax-households-eviction-rent-arrears)
Evictions are running at record highs. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....hes-record-high-43-000-2015-a6869546.html?amp)
35% of U.K. kids live in poverty.(https://www.theguardian.com/society...ases-in-england-across-the-north-and-midlands)
Student fees up 300%. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11677862.amp)
Student debt has risen 150%. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ll-finish-university-with-57000-debt-says-ifs)
Eradication of EMA (education maintenance allowance). (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-15272526.amp)
National debt has risen from £850billion to £2.25trillion. (https://fullfact.org/economy/public-debt/)
Emergency Brexit stimulus from BoE in June 2016 of £175b. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/f0c755e8-cc0c-37ec-852c-ac3b789e88a3)
Brexit related fall in national revenue £500b.(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-fall-investment-it-no-deal-a8473271.html?amp)
GDP fallen to -0.1%. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....it-pound-services-manufacturing-business-live)
GBP fallen by circa 15% versus EUR and USD.
Manufacturing in recession. (https://www.insider.co.uk/news/uk-manufacturing-industry-shrinks-fifth-20788315)
Construction in recession.(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....-brace-for-recession-risk-eu-workers-leave-uk)
Services close to recession.(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....r-to-recession-as-service-sector-slows-brexit)
25-30% cuts to all govt departments. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....rnment/key-issues/cuts-to-local-services/?amp)
25-30% cuts to all councils, mainly centred on Labour councils. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....gland-hit-harder-by-austerity-than-tory-areas)
Half of councils facing effective bankruptcy. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....in-england-face-funding-crisis-watchdog-warns)
185k extra deaths attached to the political ideology of austerity. (https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/11/e017722.full)
25,000 less police. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47225797.amp)
20,000 less prison officers.
10,000 less border officials.
10,000 less firefighters. (https://www.fbu.org.uk/news/2019/09/04/firefighter-numbers-crisis-after-chronic-underfunding)
10,000 less medical professionals. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.unison.org.uk/news/2019/12/nhs-staff-shortages-increase/amp/)
25,000 less bed spaces for mental illness.(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50307655.amp)
OECD calculate 3 million hidden unemployed, rate is really 13%. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....gures-should-be-millions-higher-says-research)
Creation of 1.3m jobs, mainly temporary, self employed, gig economy and ZHC.
Only 30k full time work positions created.
Close on 50% of workers are self employed, ZHC, or part time precariat.
80% of the 5.3 million self employed live below the poverty line. (https://www.turn2us.org.uk/About-Us/News/80-of-self-employed-live-in-poverty)
35% of self employed only earn £100 a month.
25% cuts for our disabled community.
80% cuts to Mobility allowance.(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....elfare-pip-adapted-vehicles-a7678926.html?amp)
Closing Remploy.(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....t/30/remploy-factories-close-disabled-workers)
40% of working households have practically no savings.
70% of households have less than 10k savings. (https://themoneycharity.org.uk/money-stats-almost-10m-with-no-savings/ + https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37504449.amp)
60% of households can only survive 2 months without a wage.
Household debt reaches new peak, despite emergency base rates.(https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/unsecured-debt-hits-new-peak-ps14540-household-tuc-analysis)
Increase of 50% in hate crimes. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../2019/oct/15/hate-crimes-double-england-wales)
Increase of knife crime by 150% to 22,000 per year. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089.amp)
Increase in teenage suicide by 70%. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-england-and-wales-2010-ons-a8522331.html?amp)
Suicide up 12% in the year 2018. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....es-in-uk-increase-to-highest-level-since-2002)
Self harm among young women up 70%.(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/self-harming-up-by-70-among-young-teenage-girls-k73k2khvv)
Life expectancy down 3 years since 2011 (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../mar/07/life-expectancy-slumps-by-five-months)
NHS satisfaction level at lowest recorded rate. (https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/public-satisfaction-nhs)
Council home building down 90%. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ent-building-council-houses-a8406626.html?amp)
200k social homes lost since 2010.(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....atives-boris-johnson-labour-a9284616.html?amp)
Zero starter homes built, despite Tory flagship programme (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....n-starter-homes-in-2015-manifesto-report-says)
Council home building down 90%. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ent-building-council-houses-a8406626.html?amp)
200k social homes lost since 2010. (https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/new...00-since-2012-uk-housing-review-reveals-70193)
One million families on council home waiting list.(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....amilies-waiting-for-social-housing-in-england)
100,000 increase on the council home waiting list since 2010. (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....eless-shelter-accommodation-a8389926.html?amp)
36,000 teachers have left teaching (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/scho...ng-and-7-other-school-workforce-findings/amp/)
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- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,859
I would say that Labour is bereft of ideas.
What I would also say is that this government, despite evidence of deep corruption, has been successful in avoiding fall-out.
I think there are four reasons for this:
1) The successful mantra of 'what the public really care about'. Listen to interviews and you will find Johnson using it regularly. It is his way of diverting from questions over his party's integrity. The wallpaper question was predictably answered in this way. When he was asked about it I knew what his next statement would be.
2) Whenever Starmer does question, and many of his questions have been relevant, he is met with the same dismissive response. Most of the mainstream media have fallen behind this. The Daily Express is in overdrive. Starmer is like the boy in the HCA novel who shouts out that the emperor has no clothes on, only to be given a whack and told to shut up because what the people really want to see is the wider parade.
3) The whole European issue is now a baton of us against them. The clear failings of negotiations and short comings on the deal being represented as a victory. Our fisherman don't think so, but anyone who reads some sections of the media would think otherwise. Anyone who questions is treacherous.
4) The Covid bounce. All the public really want to hear is that life is returning to normal. What they don't want to hear, and it will be kept out the light as long as possible, is about dodgy government contracts, billions of pounds of wasted taxpayers money et al. A bit like Thatcher's Falklands victory in a conflict her government caused and, according to military leaders of the time, were damn close to losing had it not been for a few twists of good fortune.
As I've said before, and forecast in 2016, we are headed for endless and possibly increasingly right wing governance. It doesn't matter whether Starmer has a coherent opposition. Like Kinnock, he will not be allowed to get his message across in an objectively reported way.
I do think that Labour would have been better going on with left wing ideology (which was really centre left and some ideas were stolen by the Tories- again conveniently overlooked). It served well in 2017 and 2019 was a single issue election. Right now they are fighting on ground that the Tories hold with all sorts of support from wide and influential sectors of society.
That said, 57% of the electorate did not vote Tory at the last election. But with our system they only need 40%. I suspect, unless some great drama happens, they will be in government for the rest of this decade at a minimum.
Fantastic work, much appreciated [emoji106]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
You make a well argued case but all of your points can be countered if the assumptions are tweaked. You start from a position that the Tories are corrupt and Brexit is bad but that just isn’t the view of many people in this country. Your assumptions make you believe that the public is wrong and so on and so on. Your conclusion that we will likely have an extended period of Tory rule is probably correct but only you can break the cycle by challenging your own assumptions.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,859
I would agree with the jobless figure on there BTW. I am not one of them but am unemployed and cannot get work. I don't register as unemployed because I don't claim government support and don't need any hassle from them. I think a lot of folk are in the same boat.
midnight_rendezvous
Well-known member
Have you been challenging your assumption that the Tories aren’t corrupt even when the overwhelming evidence suggests they are?
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,859
My Brexit position here is neutral as all is now done. I have said before that there should be no going back. My belief, however, is that the negotiations have not gone as well as presented and some of the stark figures about the drop in exports etc have not hit the headlines. It seems that the government and the media have reached the final Orwellian command on this one and done so successfully.
As for government corruption, the evidence is clear.
You'll notice, though, that my gross dislike for this government has less to do with them being in power and more to do with exasperation that they already seem to be able to get away with all sorts of mischief. My exasperation with voters is not their choice of party but more that they swallowed the narrative.
The trouble is that the more a party in government is down the line the worse it gets. But Johnson seems to be where the Tories of the 80s and 90s were much further on.
Folk need to forget bloody BREXIT. It's happened and is irreversible. They need to set aside their happiness at the vaccine being here and ask how much public money has been wasted during this period. They also need to stop reading the mainstream press and draw their own conclusions.
I have friends who are Tories (one a party member). My politics is very rainbow. I have a passive membership of the Green Party because I like their heart. Even then, I still didn't vote for them in the last election. I've even said that in a local election I would vote for a Tory if he or she were good for the ward.
But this government, mainly Johnson, I cannot stand. And it's not so much policy as it is dishonesty.
midnight_rendezvous
Well-known member
And if that’s in doubt, watch this video…
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....is-johnson-lies-viral-video-b1830732.html?amp
I believe in deliberately misleading parliament, he is breaking the ministerial code for which he should resign.
Have you been challenging your assumption that the Tories aren’t corrupt even when the overwhelming evidence suggests they are?
I’ve heard Tories repeatedly saying the corruption is ‘priced in’ with Boris. It’s expected and forgiven because he got Brexit done. It’s also in plain sight because he is too stupid or arrogant to cover his tracks. His supporters simply don’t mind ‘bodies piled high’ gaffs or breaking the ministerial code because Boris says stuff like ‘Muslim women look like letterboxes’ and 'Watermelon smiles' and 'piccaninnies'. His supporters are scared to death about liberation groups gaining influence in this Country, in their eyes he is doing a fantastic job of snuffing out moves to introduce equity across many areas of life by championing simple equality, it’s a great tactic to thwart change and his supporters can see it. He speaks to a certain section of working people like no one has done since Thatcher. It’s cult of personality, they love him, they won’t be voting Labour whatever the policies are because it’s all about personality.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Have you been challenging your assumption that the Tories aren’t corrupt even when the overwhelming evidence suggests they are?
Making constant accusations of corruption until something sticks is a tried and tested Trump strategy so please forgive me if I lack respect for this approach. I have been around long enough to be suspicious of all Governments and of course it may well be established that there was wrong doing over Covid contracts. However crying wolf over wallpaper as many Labour supporters on NSC and the likes of James O’Brien was doing on LBC just undermined credibility because it reaked of desperation to prove a pre existing view.
As to Brexit it certainly isn’t over. You yourself raised negotiation difficulties post leaving as if it somehow provides evidence that it was all a terrible mistake. I wouldn’t have thought that anybody could think we could disentangle from 40 years of EU harmonisation without tough negotiations. Many people are wary of Labour because many of their MPs spent a year doing whatever was in their power to scupper leaving. This has had long term repercussions and I will not trust Labour again until these people have been replaced.
Labour needs to understand that my and many other people’s assumptions are different to theirs and to win an election it is going to have to try to understand rather than tell us we are wrong/stupid etc.
midnight_rendezvous
Well-known member
Have you thought about a part time job as an ostrich? Your ability to bury your head in the sand to ignore what is happening, quite openly, is staggering.
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