[Albion] Mats Wieffer SINGS on 5 year contract

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Well of course - the role wasn’t there before Hürzeler took over. It was the role I was referring to in Hürzeler’s system not who Smith was as a player before Hürzeler.

I agree he is probably closer to anyone else at the moment on paper but I think he has some weaknesses in his defensive play and has no experience of playing a CB at the pace he will need, especially against some of the more highly agile forwards in the EPL. Is he fit at the moment? - He missed the end of last season with a ‘thigh problem’ so condition could be an issue - He ticks a lot of boxes potentially but I can’t see him just stepping into a CB hybrid role without some disciplined development training, (that Hürzeler could provide). Happy to wait and see what he can do at our level but yes - even if he ends up being a rotating player for Billy Gilmour or Gross, he’d be a great addition to the squad.

Perhaps we're overthinking it and we already have the perfect option in Dunk.

This is how we set up against Palace and Dunks heatmap, and that went well.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I don't really share the fears around signing players from the Eredivisie to be honest.

It's utterly dumb.

Kind of like saying you had a blue car and the exhaust went, so you're never buying a blue car again

 

[AstroSloth]

Looks like a centre back when you see his size.

But has a lot more in his locker than just interceptions, defensive workrate and defensive aerial duals.

View attachment 184584

He does a bit but I've just looked at the fbref comparison of him and he just looked like an absolute all rounder of a midfielder.

 

[JBizzle]

It's utterly dumb.

Kind of like saying you had a blue car and the exhaust went, so you're never buying a blue car again

"I've only been able to buy blue 1970's Skodas because my budget was quite small and it was the best I can afford. Now I'm a millionaire and I'm wary about buying a blue Bentley because those Skodas were rubbish"

 

[chickens]

It's utterly dumb.

Kind of like saying you had a blue car and the exhaust went, so you're never buying a blue car again

Not really, it’s more saying that players that we have brought across from that league have struggled to handle the demands of the Premier League.

It’s all very well saying that a player is in this or that percentile on their stats, but if the opposition they’ve achieved those stats against are significantly weaker than what they’d face in the PL, then it’s right to sound a note of caution.

 

[severnside gull]

Pretty much any player from any league will take time to adjust to the pace of the EPL. You can only try to assess whether they have the potential to do so.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Not really, it’s more saying that players that we have brought across from that league have struggled to handle the demands of the Premier League.

It’s all very well saying that a player is in this or that percentile on their stats, but if the opposition they’ve achieved those stats against are significantly weaker than what they’d face in the PL, then it’s right to sound a note of caution.

Can the statos provide a list of players we have bougth from the Dutch leagues in say the Amex era?

 

[Mancgull]

Reports suggesting he’s keen on the move which is key.
I wonder whether we bought Baleba in as a potential DM but now think his best role is box to box. We therefore ditch our interest in KDH and buy Mats Wieffer as a definitive DM.

 

[pigmanovich]

Can the statos provide a list of players we have bougth from the Dutch leagues in say the Amex era?

Kjell Scherpen, from Ajax
Jan Paul van Hecke, from NAC Breda
Joel Veltman, from Ajax
Alireza Jakhanbakhsh, from AZ Alkmaar
Jurgen Locadia, from PSV
Davy Propper, from PSV
Soufyan Ahannach, from Almere City
Elvis Manu, from Feyenoord
Niki Mäenpää, from VVV Venlo
Danny Holla, from ADO Den Haag
Roland Bergkamp, from Excelsior

 

[BevBHA]

It's utterly dumb.

Kind of like saying you had a blue car and the exhaust went, so you're never buying a blue car again

Not really. More like saying I once brought a Fiat and it was unreliable and didn’t perform well. So now, I may not buy another Fiat

 

[BevBHA]

Kjell Scherpen, from Ajax
Jan Paul van Hecke, from NAC Breda
Joel Veltman, from Ajax
Alireza Jakhanbakhsh, from AZ Alkmaar
Jurgen Locadia, from PSV
Davy Propper, from PSV
Soufyan Ahannach, from Almere City
Elvis Manu, from Feyenoord
Niki Mäenpää, from VVV Venlo
Danny Holla, from ADO Den Haag
Roland Bergkamp, from Excelsior

So 8 of 11 were failures, and of those failures a fair few failed in the Championship not the Premier League. So please someone tell me, why am I ‘utterly dumb’ (replying to another post not this one) to suggest, based on these facts, that there is a strong reason to question this signing?

 

[AZ Gull]

So 8 of 11 were failures, and of those failures a fair few failed in the Championship not the Premier League. So please someone tell me, why am I ‘utterly dumb’ (replying to another post not this one) to suggest, based on these facts, that there is a strong reason to question this signing?

Yep, you're right. There's very good reason why, after signing that waster Billy Arce from Ecuadorean club Independiente del Valle, we vowed never to touch anyone from THAT club again!

 

[BevBHA]

Yep, you're right. There's very good reason why, after signing that waster Billy Arce from Ecuadorean club Independiente del Valle, we vowed never to touch anyone from THAT club again!

A one off example, from a market that we hadn’t used much at the time to be able to make informed decisions about if players can adapt from South America to the Premier League. Now everyone knows South America has players which are suited to our football. We’ve had 11 players from the Dutch league and 8 of them have failed. That’s a fact. Both of the big money ones failed. Fact.

 

[AZ Gull]

A one off example, from a market that we hadn’t used much at the time to be able to make informed decisions about if players can adapt from South America to the Premier League. Now everyone knows South America has players which are suited to our football. We’ve had 11 players from the Dutch league and 8 of them have failed. That’s a fact. Both of the big money ones failed. Fact.

All human beings are different. Fact.
The qualities of one footballer tell you absolutely nothing about the qualities of any other footballer. Fact.

 

[Whitechapel]

A one off example, from a market that we hadn’t used much at the time to be able to make informed decisions about if players can adapt from South America to the Premier League. Now everyone knows South America has players which are suited to our football. We’ve had 11 players from the Dutch league and 8 of them have failed. That’s a fact. Both of the big money ones failed. Fact.

Why does the signing of Roland Bergkamp 13 years ago; under a different manager, a different scouting team and in a different league have any indication on how well this lad will do for us?

Because of the league we signed him from? The same league that’s produced some of the best footballers in Premier League history?

Is there a risk with the signing? Yes. But that’s because there’s a risk with every single signing ever.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

So 8 of 11 were failures, and of those failures a fair few failed in the Championship not the Premier League. So please someone tell me, why am I ‘utterly dumb’ (replying to another post not this one) to suggest, based on these facts, that there is a strong reason to question this signing?

Have to say I agree.

I simply don’t rate Dutch outfield () players in recent times.
Even the expensive ones haven’t done well in the PL see Depuy and the midfielder United signed. In fact I’d go as far as saying in terms of already established players, Veltman is arguably one of the best.

VVD signed some time ago for Liverpool.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

So 8 of 11 were failures, and of those failures a fair few failed in the Championship not the Premier League. So please someone tell me, why am I ‘utterly dumb’ (replying to another post not this one) to suggest, based on these facts, that there is a strong reason to question this signing?

Take a look at the top 3 scorers in the Dutch league from 2008-2018. There are some big names in there that moved to Premier League teams on big fanfare and big fees and utterly flopped.

I think it's possible the Dutch league is overrated in terms of quality, and that players that excel in that league are seen as excelling in an elite league, when the reality all but the top teams would struggle in the Championship.

 

[BevBHA]

Have to say I agree.

I simply don’t rate Dutch outfield () players in recent times.
Even the expensive ones haven’t done well in the PL see Depuy and the midfielder United signed. In fact I’d go as far as saying in terms of already established players, Veltman is arguably one of the best.

VVD signed some time ago for Liverpool.

Thankyou. There have been a few success stories for big money for sure. Most recently Kudus, then you have to go back to the likes of Suarez to find anyone who’s come directly to the Premier League from the Netherlands and done well.

There are so many examples of very expensive flops across the Premier League. Van De Beek, Bergwijn, Depay, Klaasen, Ziyech, Davinson Sanchez and of course Antony. All huge money, all poor.

£30m gets us a lot better than this fella and with much less risk.

 

[BevBHA]

Take a look at the top 3 scorers in the Dutch league from 2008-2018. There are some big names in there that moved to Premier League teams on big fanfare and big fees and utterly flopped.

I think it's possible the Dutch league is overrated in terms of quality, and that players that excel in that league are seen as excelling in an elite league, when the reality all but the top teams would struggle in the Championship.

Dutch league is piss poor let’s not sugar coat. It’s comparable to the Scottish league. 2/3 decent teams and then a load of rubbish that would probably get relegated from the Championship.

 

[macbeth]

A one off example, from a market that we hadn’t used much at the time to be able to make informed decisions about if players can adapt from South America to the Premier League. Now everyone knows South America has players which are suited to our football. We’ve had 11 players from the Dutch league and 8 of them have failed. That’s a fact. Both of the big money ones failed. Fact.

so let’s look at it from the recruitment team’s point of view. you’ve found a player who matches the statistical criteria on starlizard’s algorithm. you’ve sent scouts to watch said player, and they’ve come back with glowing reviews, they’ve seen ,in this case, that the player has also performed at a good level in european competition and think the player would suit our squad well temperament-wise. you’ve discussed the signing with coaching staff, they said the player plays in a position we need to recruit for. you start sounding out the player price-wise. barber and bloom reckon the player is within our price range, we we reckon that we can get the player for a price we’re happy with.

and then they abandon the whole thing and move onto another target because the player happens to currently play in a league where we’ve bought a few players for relatively large sums before and they (for a variety of reasons) haven’t worked out? despite signing other players from vastly inferior leagues who’ve gone on to do very well? does that sound at all rational?