[Football] Match Thread : England Women vs USA Womens World Cup Semifinal

[BensGrandad]

The still pictures being shown show that the decision was correct as both USA players feet are on the blue line and Whites is between the blue and red line so just in front. That is my interpretation.

 

[Stat Brother]

Right.

Personally, I'm getting heartily sick of VAR calls THIS marginal being called for offside (and not just because its gone against us). You could make a case that the ball had already travelled perhaps a foot at the moment this frame was taken - wind it back that half a second, and White would've been those couple of inches further back to be declared definitely "on". But no, its been decided the benefit of any doubt can NEVER be allowed to go to the attacker. This needs to change, because its far so far from "clear and obvious" as to be a joke. Look at the forward foot of the last defender and White. Both on the line.

IMO, when its this tight then you need to be clearly BEYOND the last defender to be called offside. Not part of your knee, not your toe - CLEARLY BEYOND, because only then are you gaining a CLEAR advantage. Surely the offside law is supposed to cut out goalhanging, or seeking an advantage by having a proper head start on a defender when the ball is played. NOT these bloody pube-width calls which is chalking off good goals left right and centre. The mens team got humped against Holland in the Nations League semi as well with a similarly shit-arsed decision like this.

We're losing goals from games, and replacing them with INSANE penalties for inadvertent handballs when the ball has been smashed from 2 yards away and clipped an elbow.

I'm seriously disliking VAR less and less. Its ruining games as far as I'm concerned.

For starters, as I thought at the time, that red line is surely wrong? Unless she has size 19 feet - look closely. It’s not meant to be her arm is it as it has to be a part of you you can score with - it has that changed? It would still JUST be off given their feet but it would be even closer than what they’ve drawn up there... in fact, even her arm / hand doesn’t look up with the red line. I’m also assuming the lines are dead straight (technology).

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Right.

Personally, I'm getting heartily sick of VAR calls THIS marginal being called for offside (and not just because its gone against us). You could make a case that the ball had already travelled perhaps a foot at the moment this frame was taken - wind it back that half a second, and White would've been those couple of inches further back to be declared definitely "on". But no, its been decided the benefit of any doubt can NEVER be allowed to go to the attacker. This needs to change, because its far so far from "clear and obvious" as to be a joke. Look at the forward foot of the last defender and White. Both on the line.

IMO, when its this tight then you need to be clearly BEYOND the last defender to be called offside. Not part of your knee, not your toe - CLEARLY BEYOND, because only then are you gaining a CLEAR advantage. Surely the offside law is supposed to cut out goalhanging, or seeking an advantage by having a proper head start on a defender when the ball is played. NOT these bloody pube-width calls which is chalking off good goals left right and centre. The mens team got humped against Holland in the Nations League semi as well with a similarly shit-arsed decision like this.

We're losing goals from games, and replacing them with INSANE penalties for inadvertent handballs when the ball has been smashed from 2 yards away and clipped an elbow.

I'm seriously disliking VAR less and less. Its ruining games as far as I'm concerned.

Hear hear. Although that still isn't half a second after the ball was played, it's literally on her foot.

 

[vegster]

It looks like Women's Football has really arrived! I didn't watch last night, or any other night tbh, but, just listening to Gary Neville this morning on the radio tells me all I need to know.

The quality and delivery of his clichés was right up with the level we expect from the men's game and the girls themselves have really embraced heroic failure as successfully as our men. Even the hype was of a high standard, marvellous scenes!

 

[nicko31]

Really enjoyed the game last night, but ruined by VAR

 

[mikeyjh]

The view we get is not how VAR decides offside, they use Hawkeye technology to place the lines, it is put in line with the farthest forward scoring part of the body. In that screen grab you can see a line drawn down towards the ground from Ellen’s shoulder.

VAR is not getting these calls wrong, the offside rule is just not fit for purpose. I wouldn’t be surprised if as with the handball rule we see a return to a clearer definition of offside (clear daylight or using only the feet as the point to measure from). At the moment VAR is getting it right based on the current rule. The rule needs to change.

Respectfully, you're missing my point - There IS a margin for error in terms of those lines and more so when the ball is played. If that margin for error is (literally) more than a few mm on the line and a few milliseconds then clearly the decision can be incorrect. Clearly we're talking from different sides of the argument here - I hate VAR but if you are going to use if then you have to have some sort of umpires call. In cricket we're looking at a ball travelling about 18 metres and then estimating ball travel over 1mm and they allow margin for error of approx 35mm - That margin must be far greater given the scale of a football pitch yet FIFA, in their wisdom, have decided it's black and white.

I actually don't know why I'm getting drawn in to it, I think most people recognise right now that next year's PL will have an element of farce about it due to VAR.

 

[zefarelly]

Was a good game . . .as has been said already, spoilt by VAR which is a shit system.

US were better in places, Ingerland had their opportunities and dutifully failed, but the VAR bollocks just ruins the flow and momentum of the game and often gets it's decisions no more right or wrong than regular match officials.

 

[brightn'ove]

Respectfully, you're missing my point - There IS a margin for error in terms of those lines and more so when the ball is played. If that margin for error is (literally) more than a few mm on the line and a few milliseconds then clearly the decision can be incorrect. Clearly we're talking from different sides of the argument here - I hate VAR but if you are going to use if then you have to have some sort of umpires call. In cricket we're looking at a ball travelling about 18 metres and then estimating ball travel over 1mm and they allow margin for error of approx 35mm - That margin must be far greater given the scale of a football pitch yet FIFA, in their wisdom, have decided it's black and white.

I actually don't know why I'm getting drawn in to it, I think most people recognise right now that next year's PL will have an element of farce about it due to VAR.

I believe there is a margin for error, if the call falls within the margin of error then you don't hear about it as the goal is just awarded.

 

[BensGrandad]

The big worry is that when VAR was introduced it was said that it would be used ' for clear and obvious errors'. and nobody will convince me that the goal that was disallowed fell into that cetergory. This World Cup has shown that VAR will be used for most goals if at all marginal not as it was intended to eliminate errors.

 

[nicko31]

Was a good game . . .as has been said already, spoilt by VAR which is a shit system.

US were better in places, Ingerland had their opportunities and dutifully failed, but the VAR bollocks just ruins the flow and momentum of the game and often gets it's decisions no more right or wrong than regular match officials.

Really feel that VAR is making the perfect be the enemy of the good. Pen decision was crazy last night as was the delay in even deciding to review it.

Celebrating goals may never be quite the same again

 

[brightn'ove]

The big worry is that when VAR was introduced it was said that it would be used ' for clear and obvious errors'. and nobody will convince me that the goal that was disallowed fell into that cetergory. This World Cup has shown that VAR will be used for most goals if at all marginal not as it was intended to eliminate errors.

It has been said many times, VAR was introduced to review EVERY goal for offside, and to provide assistance for clear and obvious errors in red cards, penalties, mistaken identity and off the ball incidents.

 

[Sheebo]

View attachment 112324

Still really not getting why that red line is where it is. It should be further in. Still offside but by even less!

 

[BensGrandad]

It has been said many times, VAR was introduced to review EVERY goal for offside, and to provide assistance for clear and obvious errors in red cards, penalties, mistaken identity and off the ball incidents.

sorry my misunderstanding as I took it to mean possible errors by the ref not looking to overrule most goals with hairline decisions that they couldn't have been expected to see.

 

[Stat Brother]

The view we get is not how VAR decides offside, they use Hawkeye technology to place the lines, it is put in line with the farthest forward scoring part of the body. In that screen grab you can see a line drawn down towards the ground from Ellen’s shoulder.

VAR is not getting these calls wrong, the offside rule is just not fit for purpose. I wouldn’t be surprised if as with the handball rule we see a return to a clearer definition of offside (clear daylight or using only the feet as the point to measure from). At the moment VAR is getting it right based on the current rule. The rule needs to change.

This.

People are losing their heads (looking at you now Mr D Baker) as if this incarnation of VAR is the only VAR we'll ever have.
It clearly isn't, this is a very visual representation of putting the cart before the horse.

VAR doesn't assist the current laws of the game.
All it's doing is proving how out of date the laws are.

Now here comes the problem:-

The laws of football were presided over by IFAB.
IFAB never changed anything, they were super conservative. (probably going some way to create this mess now)
Recently FIFA took control over IFAB and all of a sudden IFAB was spewing out laws. (probably going some way to create this mess now)
So now we are looking to Gianni Infantino to sort out the mess.




Oh and btw, nobody on here seems to be losing their ploppy over the penalty call.

 

[Stat Brother]

Still really not getting why that red line is where it is. It should be further in. Still offside but by even less!

It's in line with her shoulder.

I assume you have an idiot near you who loses their shite at ALL corners about the ball not being in the quadrant.
Despite the fact a section of the ball is in the quadrant, it's just not the bit touching ground.

Well...




...that

 

[brightn'ove]

This.

People are losing their heads (looking at you now Mr D Baker) as if this incarnation of VAR is the only VAR we'll ever have.
It clearly isn't, this is a very visual representation of putting the cart before the horse.

VAR doesn't assist the current laws of the game.
All it's doing is proving how out of date the laws are.

Now here comes the problem:-

The laws of football were presided over by IFAB.
IFAB never changed anything, they were super conservative. (probably going some way to create this mess now)
Recently FIFA took control over IFAB and all of a sudden IFAB was spewing out laws. (probably going some way to create this mess now)
So now we are looking to Gianni Infantino to sort out the mess.




Oh and btw, nobody on here seems to be losing their ploppy over the penalty call.

I can’t wait for this to be the topic of discussion for the next 12 months. Other huge leagues have used VAR for up to 3 seasons, it hasn’t resulted in the death of the game. We are so late to the party and misunderstand the purpose of VAR so badly that even before it’s first full season in English football people are losing their minds over it.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Watched it last night with my son with Portuguese commentary as we’re on holiday.

Without having a clue what the commentators were saying we were both convinced the goal was going to be disallowed.

We then disagreed on the morality of the decision. My view was that on decisions this marginal, based on body angles, momentum, etc, the benefit of the doubt should go with the attacking side. My son said those are the rules and we need to stick with them.

To be fair, it was no more marginal then the goalCameroon scored against us. I thought that was harshly disallowed too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Sheebo]

It's in line with her shoulder.

I assume you have an idiot near you who loses their shite at ALL corners about the ball not being in the quadrant.
Despite the fact a section of the ball is in the quadrant, it's just not the bit touching ground.

Well...




...that

You’ve made me look at it differently which is good & thank you. And I know perspective and angles are misleading - I am a big advocate of the corner / goal line stuff on here and have been for years. Remember that Greer v Watford one that everyone incl comma said was well over that wasn’t even over at all? Find that thread!

 

[Is it PotG?]

This must be fake news: I'm 99.9% certain the team is arriving by coach. Oh, I get it; you're making a tired joke about a segment of the population that are statistically the safest drivers. Carry on chuckles.

England for the cup!

 

[drew]

Was a good game . . .as has been said already, spoilt by VAR which is a shit system.

US were better in places, Ingerland had their opportunities and dutifully failed, but the VAR bollocks just ruins the flow and momentum of the game and often gets it's decisions no more right or wrong than regular match officials.

Really, what decisions did VAR get wrong last night?