Massive fire in London - Grenfell Tower in Shepherds Bush

[beorhthelm]

What you need to analyse I suppose is whether a project that clearly added equity value to the block, i.e. the works were very visual, and any flats coming up for sale, or rent would be enhanced by the improvements, with the benefit as you say of community facilities, windows and heating, against whether that expense should have been invested internally, effectively unseen for the improvement of the fire safety.

the claim is that the visual improvement was to the benefit of others looking at the tower block from a far (the immediate streets are largely other council estate). i wouldn't doubt for a moment it would improve value of the block itself, only that i dont believe much impact on values of 7-8 figure properties that can see it - property prices already mental. there's four twenty story buildings just the north west that so far haven't been improved (though i read they may consider pulling them down altogether). another point from my reading is that the insulation - the bit blamed for the spread of the fire - is not the part you see, which is a rain screen separated from the insulation cladding. i cant explain why sprinklers were also included in the renovations, it seems a massive oversight, one that doesn't seem uncommon (why not already part of regulations, why not put in the original build?), and are not a subject mentioned in the tenant consultation and questionnaires for the renovations.

 

[pb21]

It doesn’t really matter why the cladding went up (climate change, make it look nicer etc.), what matters is that it was massively not fit for purpose.

Whatever the motivations to put it up were, it shouldn’t result in what happened.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

the real problem is Mr Pie is wrong and this claim that renovations were for the benefit of the wealthy is just to ferment social division. if you look into it you'd find the cladding is about a quarter of the project, which also added new windows, heating system and imporvement to nursey and boxing clubs on site.

its pretty stupid to claim the primary purpose is for the beautification of the borough, to improve the view of the few houses/flats which could actually see it, or the other half dozen nearby towers. a nicely cladded 24 story tower block is still a 24 story tower block. this doesnt affect on the prices of homes in the posh parts.

Can't say I've seen any 'posh parts' around the Latimer Road/Westfield/Shepherds Bush area.

 

[Bold Seagull]

the claim is that the visual improvement was to the benefit of others looking at the tower block from a far (the immediate streets are largely other council estate). i wouldn't doubt for a moment it would improve value of the block itself, only that i dont believe much impact on values of 7-8 figure properties that can see it - property prices already mental. there's four twenty story buildings just the north west that so far haven't been improved (though i read they may consider pulling them down altogether). another point from my reading is that the insulation - the bit blamed for the spread of the fire - is not the part you see, which is a rain screen separated from the insulation cladding. i cant explain why sprinklers were also included in the renovations, it seems a massive oversight, one that doesn't seem uncommon (why not already part of regulations, why not put in the original build?), and are not a subject mentioned in the tenant consultation and questionnaires for the renovations.

I believe the cladding is an aluminium cassette in which the insulating material is sandwiched in a powder coated aluminium casing. This is typically mounted on a metal frame with clips (you can see these in the current photos) with the nominal 50mm void fire stopped at all party junctions. Purely speculation on my part, but the ferocity of the fire I think has caused the cassettes to break open thus exposing the internal insulation to fire.

I've not read whether the windows were upvc or not, but this is something that maybe even more relevant than the cladding when we get more detail. Upvc windows melt at relatively low temperatures (when we are talking fire) and the resulting molten plastic drips down like lava. The window specification in this could turn out to be as significant as the cladding - I will emphasise I don't know what the windows were that were put in at this point.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I believe the cladding is an aluminium cassette in which the insulating material is sandwiched in a powder coated aluminium casing. This is typically mounted on a metal frame with clips (you can see these in the current photos) with the nominal 50mm void fire stopped at all party junctions. Purely speculation on my part, but the ferocity of the fire I think has caused the cassettes to break open thus exposing the internal insulation to fire.

I've not read whether the windows were upvc or not, but this is something that maybe even more relevant than the cladding when we get more detail. Upvc windows melt at relatively low temperatures (when we are talking fire) and the resulting molten plastic drips down like lava. The window specification in this could turn out to be as significant as the cladding - I will emphasise I don't know what the windows were that were put in at this point.

Reading into it further, this may well be wrong, and not the type of retrofit I had thought was being used. Too much speculation which I am only adding to. Apologies.

 

[Southy]

He says the Tories voted against a bill about safety. Who put the bill forward? Surely with a Tory government, that would be the Tories?

Private members bill http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16/landlordandtenantreform.html

 

[clapham_gull]

Can't say I've seen any 'posh parts' around the Latimer Road/Westfield/Shepherds Bush area.

There very much is now.

"Posh" as in property prices that are high for even London.

 

[Triggaaar]

https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...n-to-improve-rented-homes-but-its-complicated

More mud slinging. Labour were in power not long ago, they could have put bills in place then. I can't see any evidence this bill would have prevented this catastrophe anyway.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Superb gesture by Andy Murray

'Andy Murray to make Grenfell fire donation from Queen's winnings

Britain's world number one Andy Murray will donate any winnings from the Aegon Championships at Queen's to families of the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire tragedy.

Murray, 30, can earn up to £350,000 in prize money by winning the tournament.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40341340

 

[Sussex Nomad]

There very much is now.

"Posh" as in property prices that are high for even London.

Really? Can you tell me them?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Superb gesture by Andy Murray

'Andy Murray to make Grenfell fire donation from Queen's winnings

Britain's world number one Andy Murray will donate any winnings from the Aegon Championships at Queen's to families of the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire tragedy.

Murray, 30, can earn up to £350,000 in prize money by winning the tournament.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40341340

So many people in this country shout him down for being a sweatie. Good on you Andy, I for one find you the best sportsman this country has had for many decades.

 

[portlock seagull]

Incredible gesture by Murray. Well done that BRITISH lad

 

[Ernest]

K & C council wants to rehouse the survivors in Preston according to David Lammy , threatening them with being intentionally homeless if they refuse. Despicable and the sooner this gets stopped the better

 

[East Preston Gull]

Incredible gesture by Murray. Well done that BRITISH lad

The guy is a great ambassador for this country. One of our greatest Sportsman. Top work Andy.
Any chance he could conduct the Brexit negotiations for us.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Jim D]

The guy is a great ambassador for this country. One of our greatest Sportsman. Top work Andy.
Any chance he could conduct the Brexit negotiations for us.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

That's all well and good, but it looks like he'll be contributing about £5 the way he's going at the moment.

 

[sjamesb3466]

Andy Murray is donating all his winnings from Queens to the victims

Going out to the world number 90 isn't doing his pledge any favours!

 

[Is it PotG?]

Superb gesture by Andy Murray

'Andy Murray to make Grenfell fire donation from Queen's winnings

Britain's world number one Andy Murray will donate any winnings from the Aegon Championships at Queen's to families of the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire tragedy.

Murray, 30, can earn up to £350,000 in prize money by winning the tournament.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40341340

Fair play to you Andy

 

[jakarta]

K & C council wants to rehouse the survivors in Preston according to David Lammy , threatening them with being intentionally homeless if they refuse. Despicable and the sooner this gets stopped the better

What is wrong with Preston, you Soft Southern Shandy drinker?

 

[Brighton Mod]

For those disgraceful poliicians demanding answers within four and five days of this tragedy and whipping up anger and hate amongst survivors, relatives and left wing activists, spare a thoUght for those family and friends of those who lost their lives in the Shoreham Air Crash. The inquest is not due to be completed for another two years, come on Jeremy, Lammy, Abbot, Khan et al what about these people.

You vile individuals, agitating people knowingly, at their lowest point, with impossible demands to score cheap political points, you're a disgrace.

 

[bWize]

For those disgraceful poliicians demanding answers within four and five days of this tragedy and whipping up anger and hate amongst survivors, relatives and left wing activists, spare a thoUght for those family and friends of those who lost their lives in the Shoreham Air Crash. The inquest is not due to be completed for another two years, come on Jeremy, Lammy, Abbot, Khan et al what about these people.

You vile individuals, agitating people knowingly, at their lowest point, with impossible demands to score cheap political points, you're a disgrace.

Think you should have a word with yourself... The 2 situations are entirely different!