Massive fire in London - Grenfell Tower in Shepherds Bush

[neilbard]

Not jailed though - in custody awaiting court.

I never said he was just passing on the links to reports!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Amazing how the news (Beeb) has started this morning. Not about the missing, the survivors, the way ahead but 'Corbyn has complained about the amount of money pledged'.

Priorities people, priorities.

I imagine that money, and access to money, is an incredibly high priority to the survivors.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

[MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] has made a very eloquent case as to why this is politics.

My take is that everything we currently know which did and didn't happen simply would not have occurred had it been a wealthy person's tower block. E.g. their concerns would not have been constantly batted away and ignored. For this alone its politics.

Building Regulations are Builing Regulations and have to be followed regardless of whether the builing is private residential, council residential, commercial or industrial. The wealth of the occupant has no sway on these regulations. I think it will transpire that regulations in respect of rain screen cladding to high rise buildings will be found to be inadequate.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I imagine that money, and access to money, is an incredibly high priority to the survivors.

Thanks

 

[portlock seagull]

Disgusting if true, but jailed ? I have never known the wheels of justice to turn that fast ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...oto-dead-grenfell-tower-fire-victim-facebook/

I can't understand why this isn't more prominent news.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Heard on the radio that Corbyn says 5M is not enough. I really don't know what else the government can do at this precise moment in time.

 

[Steve in Japan]

I really don't know what else the government can do at this precise moment in time.

They can't do anything, because both social and mainstream media have effectively tried them and found them guilty. I think that's what is going on now. The rush to judgement is amazing. Tories = austerity = guilty *******s.

It seems almost old-fashioned to want a proper inquiry which examines the root causes and allocates responsibility correctly.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Building Regulations are Builing Regulations and have to be followed regardless of whether the builing is private residential, council residential, commercial or industrial. The wealth of the occupant has no sway on these regulations. I think it will transpire that regulations in respect of rain screen cladding to high rise buildings will be found to be inadequate.

We know it's building regulations. The issue is that the government had the opportunity to toughen them up and didn't https://www.theguardian.com/society...-ensure-rented-homes-fit-for-human-habitation

The issue is we don't know if the report suppressed by Gavin Barwell recommended changes to improve fire safety because the report was suppressed.

The issue is that if someone in a privately owned block wants to change the building then they do so in conjunction with the freeholder. If the freeholder is inadequate there used to be the option of an LVT (we got rid of our freeholder this way many years ago and took over ourselves in an old, dodgy flat in the town centre). these days I think it's a First Tier Tribunal. But, for whatever reasons, when the residents of Grenfell Tower tried to get over their point that they felt the building was a fire risk - either because the regulations had not been followed or were inadequate - they were ignored.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

We know it's building regulations. The issue is that the government had the opportunity to toughen them up and didn't https://www.theguardian.com/society...-ensure-rented-homes-fit-for-human-habitation

The issue is we don't know if the report suppressed by Gavin Barwell recommended changes to improve fire safety because the report was suppressed.

The issue is that if someone in a privately owned block wants to change the building then they do so in conjunction with the freeholder. If the freeholder is inadequate there used to be the option of an LVT (we got rid of our freeholder this way many years ago and took over ourselves in an old, dodgy flat in the town centre). these days I think it's a First Tier Tribunal. But, for whatever reasons, when the residents of Grenfell Tower tried to get over their point that they felt the building was a fire risk - either because the regulations had not been followed or were inadequate - they were ignored.

Fair comment

 

[Tarpon]

We know it's building regulations. The issue is that the government had the opportunity to toughen them up and didn't https://www.theguardian.com/society...-ensure-rented-homes-fit-for-human-habitation

The issue is we don't know if the report suppressed by Gavin Barwell recommended changes to improve fire safety because the report was suppressed.

The issue is that if someone in a privately owned block wants to change the building then they do so in conjunction with the freeholder. If the freeholder is inadequate there used to be the option of an LVT (we got rid of our freeholder this way many years ago and took over ourselves in an old, dodgy flat in the town centre). these days I think it's a First Tier Tribunal. But, for whatever reasons, when the residents of Grenfell Tower tried to get over their point that they felt the building was a fire risk - either because the regulations had not been followed or were inadequate - they were ignored.

Well put.

 

[pastafarian]

This has the makings of class war (note small case letters), frankly, and that's as political as you get.

good for you and your class war.....its your democratic right to push class war into the mix of this tragedy......its the right of everyone else to say you are a cockwomble for doing so and quite disgusting
but did you work out which brighton fans you were referring to when you said " incredible that any Brighton fan would condemn the protests"......you decided to go a bit silent on this question for some reason

 

[Bozza]

We know it's building regulations. The issue is that the government had the opportunity to toughen them up and didn't https://www.theguardian.com/society...-ensure-rented-homes-fit-for-human-habitation

I'm so fed up with this, and hearing an independent political observer on Five Live yesterday evening saying (and I paraphrase) "Of course Jeremy Corbyn is making political capital out of this - it's how it works" to the utter disbelief of the presenter who pretty much said "Can't all politicians just commit to doing everything they can do to help and leave it there?"

So, in response to your article I'll just leave the one detailing where under a Labour administration in 1999 there were very explicit warning about the risks of these cladding systems and had, what, 11 more years in power. What did they do about it? Sweet **** all from what I can tell.

Glyn Evans from the Fire Brigades Union told a Select Committee on Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs that after the Great Fire of London only horizontal fires were considered and "we do not really recognise the problem of vertical envelopment. If you get multistorey buildings you will get fire spread up the outside if the cladding will permit it."

It's easy this blame game, isn'i it? Not sure what it does to help those affected though. Doesn't matter if political points can be scored though, I guess.

 

[Beach Hut]

As if this is not tragic enough the legacy my well be nothing will ever be done to prevent this happening again whilst politicians point score over it.

 

[kevo]

I'm so fed up with this, and hearing an independent political observer on Five Live yesterday evening saying (and I paraphrase) "Of course Jeremy Corbyn is making political capital out of this - it's how it works" to the utter disbelief of the presenter who pretty much said "Can't all politicians just commit to doing everything they can do to help and leave it there?"

So, in response to your article I'll just leave the one detailing where under a Labour administration in 1999 there were very explicit warning about the risks of these cladding systems and had, what, 11 more years in power. What did they do about it? Sweet **** all from what I can tell.

Glyn Evans from the Fire Brigades Union told a Select Committee on Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs that after the Great Fire of London only horizontal fires were considered and "we do not really recognise the problem of vertical envelopment. If you get multistorey buildings you will get fire spread up the outside if the cladding will permit it."

It's easy this blame game, isn'i it? Not sure what it does to help those affected though. Doesn't matter if political points can be scored though, I guess.

Can you explain how Jeremy Corbyn is making political capital out of this? What has he done? I've seen absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever. What is your evidence?

As far as I can see, he just went down there to help and comfort the victims (which is quite rightly being contrasted by other people with May's cold response). Is that making political capital out of it? Do you think he should just have stayed at home?

 

[Guinness Boy]

good for you and your class war.....its your democratic right to push class war into the mix of this tragedy......its the right of everyone else to say you are a cockwomble for doing so and quite disgusting
but did you work out which brighton fans you were referring to when you said " incredible that any Brighton fan would condemn the protests"......you decided to go a bit silent on this question for some reason

If you're going to get so upset you could at least try and read and understand what people are posting. I said "the makings of class war" and quite clearly meant it in reverse - that one of the reasons the victims weren't listened to was because they were poor. I stand by that.

It's not "my class war" and I never said it was but it has made me feel closer to the Labour Party, not further away. Closer to how I felt as a teenager, And very, very angry. The things that made me feel that way as a teen were specifically the Miner's Strike and Hillsborough. That's when I knew whose side I was on.

As for your last point I went to bed. As I said last night if the cap fits, wear it. I'll leave it there. Not sure petty point scoring or spending all day quoting each other will achieve anything,.

 

[PeterOut]

Let's recover the dead with dignity and return them to their families before we start pulling each other to pieces.

This.

Very much, this.

 

[The Clamp]

Seems like quite a few Tory supporters on here don't want the possible underlying causes of this tragedy scrutinised too closely. An attitude which I'm sure will be mirrored in the wider world.

When the enquiry/cover up begins will it be acceptable for whoever is being investigated to wave it all off with a haughty "you're just political point scoring"?

No.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Seems like quite a few Tory supporters on here don't want the possible underlying causes of this tragedy scrutinised too closely. An attitude which I'm sure will be mirrored in the wider world.

Where has anyone said that? Some people do write b@llocks

 

[Questions]

I'm so fed up with this, and hearing an independent political observer on Five Live yesterday evening saying (and I paraphrase) "Of course Jeremy Corbyn is making political capital out of this - it's how it works" to the utter disbelief of the presenter who pretty much said "Can't all politicians just commit to doing everything they can do to help and leave it there?"

So, in response to your article I'll just leave the one detailing where under a Labour administration in 1999 there were very explicit warning about the risks of these cladding systems and had, what, 11 more years in power. What did they do about it? Sweet **** all from what I can tell.

Glyn Evans from the Fire Brigades Union told a Select Committee on Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs that after the Great Fire of London only horizontal fires were considered and "we do not really recognise the problem of vertical envelopment. If you get multistorey buildings you will get fire spread up the outside if the cladding will permit it."

It's easy this blame game, isn'i it? Not sure what it does to help those affected though. Doesn't matter if political points can be scored though, I guess.

It's been quite obvious your views on JC of late but joining the Mail the Sun and the Express in thinking he is purely political point scoring is wrong. If a labour government had been in power the last 7 years under say Milliband he would still say things like lack of funds given to local councils for dealing with safety issues like this will inevitably lead to situations like this. Or maybe you think JC has been a sycophant for the reds all these years. If so you haven't kept up. I can give you quote after quote from him on the subject over the years on social housing under both governments but I'm off out now because it's a lovely day. Keep on ripping in to him though.

 

[The Clamp]

Where has anyone said that? Some people do write b@llocks

Well nobody has said "I'm a Tory supporter and I don't want this scrutinised". It's called interpretation. You dolt.