[Football] Mason Greenwood

[wellquickwoody]

Obviously as a general rule innocent till proven guilty. In this case, the evidence speaks for itself.

Anybody that has seen/heard the recordings that were widely available on social media are likely of the same view that he shouldn't be playing. if you've seen those posts, then it would seem you are condoning violence against women but the vast majority don't.

First up, I do not condone violence against anybody, not just women.

Secondly, as per my Initial post, anybody prepared to condemn without legal conviction should be prepared to be the hangman. And not all cases are as straight forward as this appears to be.

 

[jordanseagull]

He doesn’t give her a choice about when she has sex with him so I doubt he gives her a choice about birth control.
A lot of abusers coerce or force their partners into having children with them because the child can then be used as a threat, a punishment, and as a way to stay in the mother’s life forever.

I was just correcting a post that said she was his ex.

 

[dazzer6666]

They didn’t play the clip, but they had a whole report on it on Newsnight last night (Thursday) where Victoria Derbyshire read out what was said.
I guess the CPS aren’t proceeding because they can’t verify it was him.

Think they're not proceeding because key witnesses have withdrawn. As expressed above, without their testimony there's no chance of a conviction.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I hate to feel some sympathy for Man Utd, but I do with this situation. In the eyes of the law (and I assume contract law) they can't simply cancel his contract as he hasn't been found guilty of any crime. On the other hand, there's no way he can play for the club again and no decent club are going to want him. So United are a bit stuck.

They should really have just let his contract run out without playing him and not commented further. Pretty much what City did with Mendy

I wondered if they could argue gross misconduct for bringing the club in to disrepute, which he clearly has.

 

[The Clamp]

First up, I do not condone violence against anybody, not just women.

Secondly, as per my Initial post, anybody prepared to condemn without legal conviction should be prepared to be the hangman. And not all cases are as straight forward as this appears to be.

You’re right in that not all cases are straightforward.

Obviously, we all have to tread carefully when a legal decision is in the balance or has been made.

However, less than 2% of all rape cases are deemed strong enough to make it through court but nobody will ever convince me that 98% of all rape allegations are false.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Amazes me that people reach conclusions in either direction based on the very very limited (none) facts they have at hand. For what it's worth I think Mason Greenwood is probably an awful person but I'll let people who are much closer to the situation judge.

Tangentially, once Rachel Riley has opined, I'm instinctively in the opposite camp as much of what I've heard from her suggest she's also not a great character.

For once we agree.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Really, no smoke without fire? Whilst I get that this can sometimes be the case, can we really condemn people who have not been proven to be guilty? Anyone comfortable with that concept needs to be the hangman.

I wasn’t putting “no smoke without fire” forward as my own personal view - just as an attitude some people would adopt.

 

[GT49er]

First up, I do not condone violence against anybody, not just women.

Secondly, as per my Initial post, anybody prepared to condemn without legal conviction should be prepared to be the hangman. And not all cases are as straight forward as this appears to be.

We're not discussing 'all cases' - just this one, where there is plenty of evidence which could not be used in a criminal court because the victim decided not to co-operate.

 

[The Clamp]

We're not discussing 'all cases' - just this one, where there is plenty of evidence which could not be used in a criminal court because the victim decided not to co-operate.

Precisely. In many cases the victim won’t support a prosecution.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

A couple of weekends ago, myself and colleagues were called to a hotel room to work a case where a male had carried out a sustained attack on his girlfriend for “dancing with a black man” in a nightclub.

She didn’t want to press charges. They rarely do. It’s fear based and coercive.

“He’s not normally like this”
“This is the first time it’s happened” (NEVER true)
“I think I startled him”
Etc

Out of the dozens of jobs I’ve attended where attacks have been alleged, only one has ever willingly pressed charges. I’ve met women who have married their abusers out of fear of not doing it. Many who endure their partners doing all sorts of vile things to them because it’ll be worse if they don’t comply.



Picking up on these signs and signals from a victim gets easier the more of them you meet but I can see why to an outsider it might seem ridiculous that a victim will marry, bear the children, or even talk to the abuser.

And yes, as you say, the new girlfriend usually always supports the abuser and even joins in mocking the ex-victim. Even when the partner starts abusing them.

There’s an old Scandi-Noir detective thing that we’ve been catching up on called Beck (it’s excellent), and we watched an episode last night which was precisely about this issue, highlighting exactly the denial from the victim that so often happens. We were well aware of that sort of thing, but it was chilling.

 

[Mackenzie]

How skewed is Manchester United's moral compass, for them to even contemplate playing Greenwood again. Beggars belief.

 

[martin tyler]

From a criminal point of view without the testimony of her, her family and friends there would be an unrealistic chance of a conviction even as a victimless prosecution is small hence why case was dropped.

 

[martin tyler]

From a employment tribunal point of view I would say he had brought the brand of Manchester United in to disrepute and that would be enough to let him go

 

[Live by the sea]

One thing I will say is that I think the position of the club of "wait until the women come back from the world cup and hear what they have to say" is disgraceful, it smacks of those at the top of the club not wanting to make the decision and instead trying to get as many people as possible to "dip their hands in the blood".

The really concerning thing about this is that by including the female players this will open them up to all sort of abuse from the weirdo and utter shit-for-brains knuckle-draggers of the football supporter world, and they will be having to fend this shit off for years. It gives the impression that those who are supposedly paid the big bucks to take the difficult decisions will simply let someone else with a more public profile take the fall for the decisions they should be prepared to just make, but are seemingly unwilling to do so, allowing them to slink back into the shadows once it's happened and someone else cops the flak from the twats.

Again comparing it to our club but if it were to happen I would hope that Tony Bloom and Paul Barber would be the ones to stand up, make and own the decision one way or another, anything else would feel like an abrogation of duty. Not hide behind the women's team or the like.

If greenwood was a Brighton player his contract would have been terminated by now . In my opinion.

 

[Sheebo]

You could tell from her old man’s reaction right at the start he was getting special treatment cos he’s a footballer. ‘he’s part of the family’ etc. Not surprised she’s back with him and had a baby. One bit. Poor all round.

 

[essbee1]

Playing in front of crowds of any size is now completely untenable.

 

[The Clamp]

There’s an old Scandi-Noir detective thing that we’ve been catching up on called Beck (it’s excellent), and we watched an episode last night which was precisely about this issue, highlighting exactly the denial from the victim that so often happens. We were well aware of that sort of thing, but it was chilling.

I will check that out, I think I’ve seen some of those.

Luckily police can still make an arrest and prosecute without the victim’s support and of course if we witness it ourselves, which we often do, we can detain the suspect and support a prosecution.

However, this has very little impact on ongoing abuse.


In fact on more than one occasion we have detained a male abuser, the partner has turned on us and both of them have ended up being arrested. If they do not demonstrably and loudly object to the abuser being arrested or questioned and not appear to be on their side, things will be horrendous for the victim when the abuser is released from custody. It’s gutting to watch.

Every job we attend has its own peculiarities but all of them are depressingly similar.

 

[Hamilton]

There's a great article in The Busby Babe on the course of action that the club should take. It's simple - he should not be invited to represent the club.

Manchester United and the Mason Greenwood mess of their own making

On the club’s alleged decision concerning Mason Greenwood...

thebusbybabe.sbnation.com

He appears to be afforded a level of protection due to his perceived capabilities as a footballer and the value of his contract. That should not be part of the debate here. If Manchester United are a club seeking to afford respect to all members of the community, then Mason Greenwood does not represent what they stand for and should be asked to leave.

The fact that they have put pressure on the Women's team and supporters to have a view shows how deaf they are to the issues and is a complete dereliction of duty.

 

[The Clamp]

There's a great article in The Busby Babe on the course of action that the club should take. It's simple - he should not be invited to represent the club.

Manchester United and the Mason Greenwood mess of their own making

On the club’s alleged decision concerning Mason Greenwood...

thebusbybabe.sbnation.com

He appears to be afforded a level of protection due to his perceived capabilities as a footballer and the value of his contract. That should not be part of the debate here. If Manchester United are a club seeking to afford respect to all members of the community, then Mason Greenwood does not represent what they stand for and should be asked to leave.

The fact that they have put pressure on the Women's team and supporters to have a view shows how deaf they are to the issues and is a complete dereliction of duty.

I’ve missed the aspect of the story about pressure on the women’s team. What are they asking of them?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

A sensible and reasoned post. I agree. But surely DD's joke must have made you smile?

Hence the very mild objection.