[Football] Marcelo Bielsa - is he the Messiah

[Megazone]

Everton got nine titles as well and Nottingham Forest won the European Cup. It says very little.



Any coach of any team are going to play against weaker sides every now and then, so yeah a lot of those wins were probably against other South American teams.

There's also far less blueberry countries to inflate the numbers than in Europe. Ecuador beats the shit out of Liechtenstein, Malta, San Marino, Andorra, Gibraltar etc. seven days a week and even the second tier blueberries of Europe (like Latvia, Northern Ireland, Macedonia and so on) would be dead last in the South Ameircan qualifier.

Funny you mention Chile as a shite team since they also had Bielsa as manager, winning 51.5% of their 66 games.

Would you compare him to the likes of Ferguson and Wenger?

 

[A1X]

The same Leeds squad bar Bamford and Costsa finished 13th the season before he arrived, Leeds spent just 4 weeks outside the top two in the following two championship seasons after that.

The same Brighton squad bar Murray, Knockaert and Duffy finished 20th in 2014/15. They then spent almost all of the next two season in the top 3, much of it in the top 2. So all you've basically said is Bielsa is a more expensive Chris Hughton.

 

[Swansman]

Would you compare him to the likes of Ferguson and Wenger?

Nope and not because I think he is better or worse but because its just impossible to compare anyone with managers who stayed for 20+ years and essentially became their clubs. Feck do I know how SAF would manage a few years in Bilbao or what would happen if Bielsa coached United for 26 years.

Its just impossible to compare.

 

[Dick Head]

Or just a very naughty boy (let’s get that out of the way from the start )

I am astounded that after two seasons in the Championship and promotion from a frankly average league last season that Leeds fans are so convinced that he is something really special.

Then I checked who has been managing them for the last 16 years and it all becomes clear as to why they are now creaming their pants over their manager

Is there a decent one in there that you wish had managed the Albion?



Kevin Blackwell – 1 June 2004 – 20 September 2006
John Carver – 21 September 2006 – 23 October 2006
David Geddis – 24 October 2006 – 24 October 2006
Dennis Wise – 24 October 2006 – 28 January 2008
Gwyn Williams – 29 January 2008 – 29 January 2008

I think he will fail because Premier League clubs tend to have higher fences around their training grounds.

And he's a very naughty boy.

 

[Megazone]

Nope and not because I think he is better or worse but because its just impossible to compare anyone with managers who stayed for 20+ years and essentially became their clubs. Feck do I know how SAF would manage a few years in Bilbao or what would happen if Bielsa coached United for 26 years.

Its just impossible to compare.

That's a fair point but we must respect that Ferguson not only had league success with Aberdeen but he had European success with them too beating Real Madrid in the final. That is what I would call a legendary manager. Biesla is obviously a good manager but to call him the Messiah for getting Leeds promoted from the 2nd division is just ridiculous. That's not something anyone would call against the odds like the stuff Ferguson achieved. Leeds have always had the advantage of attracting players due to their reputation whilst they've been financially broke and playing in the lower leagues. They've massively underachieved in taking 16 years to get back to the top flight. Arsenal went a whole season unbeaten the last time Leeds were top flight. They should be embarrassed a club like them took so long to get back. Why do Sheffield Wednesday come to mind?
No disrespect to Biesla but the way Leeds are treating him as if he's the greatest manager they've ever had just shows how down the tiers they've really gone.

 

[father_and_son]

Would you compare him to the likes of Ferguson and Wenger?

How could you? Both are noted for both their success *and* the length of their tenure at the respective clubs.

Bielsa is far too fickle to stay at any one club long enough to achieve the status of Fergie or Wenger.

 

[Megazone]

How could you? Both are noted for both their success *and* the length of their tenure at the respective clubs.

Bielsa is far too fickle to stay at any one club long enough to achieve the status of Fergie or Wenger.

As mentioned above, what Ferguson did at Aberdeen is arguably his greatest achievement.

 

[father_and_son]

As mentioned above, what Ferguson did at Aberdeen is arguably his greatest achievement.

Point still stands though. Can you see Bielsa staying at Leeds for 8+ years?

 

[smillie's garden]

Well, Newell's Old Boys (NOB) - a club Bielsa played for and coached - are nicknamed La Lepra (The Lepers.) Lepers are known associates of messiahs.

 

[jessiejames]

Very much over rated. 40 years in management not a lot to show for it. All this deal about improving players, where is the proof? Before anyone say Ben White, he was a very good player before going to Leeds. If Bucketman is as good at making players outstanding, why are they in the transfer market buying players when he can use the U23's, why was he against taking White before he went to Peterborough?
I would like to see him sign a new contract, to see how good he is, but I don't expect him to be at Leeds at the end of this season.

 

[Megazone]

Point still stands though. Can you see Bielsa staying at Leeds for 8+ years?

Probably not. I also can't see him keeping Leeds up if he does stay for the forthcoming season.

They're nowhere near the quality Wolves were when they got promoted. They've got a squad of good 2nd division players eg Bamford. They're not a team who outclassed the 2nd division and seeing how desperate they were for one of our youngsters after promotion shows the obvious lack of quality they've got and had in winning that division.
Comparing him to Ferguson or Wenger is ridiculous. Loyalty isn't what determines great managers. Yes loyalty is something we should respect but not something that determines someones ability. Biesla's lack of loyalty isn't why you can't compare him to Ferguson. It's the fact all he has done in the English game so far is win the 2nd division. It's almost disrespectful to even put him in the same brackets as the likes of Ferguson, Clough, Wenger etc. Mickey Adams transformed a 4th division team with no money, no stadium and a very uncertain future into a 2nd division quality outfit through signing players for peanuts and turning Bristol Rovers rejects into England capped, UEFA Cup top goal scorers. That still doesn't mean he's as good as Ferguson.

 

[jessiejames]

Potentially?! That is an insult to him. No, HE IS a very good manager, no potential about it. He's brilliant.

Don't understand the downplaying of him on here, there is a lot of contradiction. A lot of people are saying that Leeds have a very poor squad with average players and yet he's managed to comfortably win the Championship, which everyone acknowledges is a very hard league to get out of, with that same squad.

The poorest standard Championship in 10 years.

 

[withdeanwombat]

A re-imagining of Oor Wullie

Sits on a bucket and speaks a language it’s hard to understand.

So that’s a no from me.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Leeds have just had a season of seasons. A large part of that has been due to the manager. Why the need to piss on their chips? Good luck to them. I would like another one.

 

[Megazone]

Leeds have just had a season of seasons. A large part of that has been due to the manager. Why the need to piss on their chips? Good luck to them. I would like another one.

Totally agree. This is a huge achievement for a club like Leeds. Unbelievable they managed to get promoted from the 2nd division. What next? Celtic winning the SPL?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Leeds have just had a season of seasons. A large part of that has been due to the manager. Why the need to piss on their chips? Good luck to them. I would like another one.

They won the Championship but as I read it, they got exactly the same number of points, WD&L as we did in 16/17, so not that remarkable.

 

[HastingsSeagull]

Covid break helped him a lot. That said I wanted him for England years ago and got grief on here. Think he suits International football more than a full league season.

 

[dingodan]

Word from the training ground is that BW is already starting to lose the magical powers Bielsa gave him. Picked up the ball in the middle of a training match and started trying to pick at the stitching.

Had to be wrestled away from him by two of the coaches apparently.

 

[Swansman]

That's a fair point but we must respect that Ferguson not only had league success with Aberdeen but he had European success with them too beating Real Madrid in the final. That is what I would call a legendary manager. Biesla is obviously a good manager but to call him the Messiah for getting Leeds promoted from the 2nd division is just ridiculous. That's not something anyone would call against the odds like the stuff Ferguson achieved. Leeds have always had the advantage of attracting players due to their reputation whilst they've been financially broke and playing in the lower leagues. They've massively underachieved in taking 16 years to get back to the top flight. Arsenal went a whole season unbeaten the last time Leeds were top flight. They should be embarrassed a club like them took so long to get back. Why do Sheffield Wednesday come to mind?
No disrespect to Biesla but the way Leeds are treating him as if he's the greatest manager they've ever had just shows how down the tiers they've really gone.

I agree that the Aberdeen story was his greatest success and that Bielsa have had no moment at that level... though that could be said for almost every manager. Rehagel winning both with Greece and the Bundesliga with Kaiserslautern (as newcomers) might be up there, Eriksson winning the UEFA Cup with amateurs, and Leicester winning the PL... they are similar level but none of them managed to manage a top team for 25 years.

Meaning... you could be a great manager without being as great as Ferguson. Bielsa took Athletic Bilbao to a Europa League final and Newell's Old Boys to the Copa Libertadores final, not quite Aberdeen level but great surprises nonetheless.

Point still stands though. Can you see Bielsa staying at Leeds for 8+ years?

If Ferguson & Wenger were appointed today I could (sadly) not see them last as long as they did. Ferguson came in to rebuild United and as football/the club grew, he was in the middle of it and became the centre of everything. Pretty much the same with Wenger in Arsenal. When they were building their new arena Wenger was even present at the meeting with the bank and forced to promise that he would stay for five years, or they would not get the loan.

Things like that does not happen anymore. Clubs are too big to ever let a manager have full control of everything. I doubt any of the present managers in the PL will manage their current club five years from now. Potter is perhaps the most likely as I dont think he will agree to work with absent foreign owners again, I think he found out how difficult that is while at Swansea.

 

[Swansman]

Covid break helped him a lot. That said I wanted him for England years ago and got grief on here. Think he suits International football more than a full league season.

Swansea wanted him at one point...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D97GP_2Sh5c