Man Utd & Moyes getting BOOED

[Simster]

I think 5th is the absolute best United can hope for this season. I just don't see how they can finish above Liverpool. So for that reason I'd be interested to hear whether you are expecting a big improvement from United or a meltdown at Liverpool in the second half of the season.

A bit of both actually. Liverpool are HEAVILY reliant on Louis Suarez. He only has to pick up an injury or sending off and I think they will drop points. Also, Liverpool are a bit of a flat track bully. They are doing of good job of beating everyone outside the top 6 but struggle against teams they consider their piers. They also still have to go to Old Trafford, where I fancy them to get turned over. Man Utd are not the force they once were, but are still a decent side. They have been quite unlucky in some games I think. As much as I was pleased to see Spuz turn them over yesterday (especially as Spuz have been the victims of scandalous decisions at Man Utd down the years), they were very unlucky not to draw despite being off colour. Moyes was absolutely right - the Spurs keeper should have gone AND given away a penalty in the last few minutes.

BTW, I think Arsenal will finish third, and will finish around 5 points behind the other two. Either Chelsea or Man City will win it, IMO.

 

[Hamilton]

A bit of both actually. Liverpool are HEAVILY reliant on Louis Suarez. He only has to pick up an injury or sending off and I think they will drop points. Also, Liverpool are a bit of a flat track bully. They are doing of good job of beating everyone outside the top 6 but struggle against teams they consider their piers. They also still have to go to Old Trafford, where I fancy them to get turned over. Man Utd are not the force they once were, but are still a decent side. They have been quite unlucky in some games I think. As much as I was pleased to see Spuz turn them over yesterday (especially as Spuz have been the victims of scandalous decisions at Man Utd down the years), they were very unlucky not to draw despite being off colour. Moyes was absolutely right - the Spurs keeper should have gone AND given away a penalty in the last few minutes.

BTW, I think Arsenal will finish third, and will finish around 5 points behind the other two. Either Chelsea or Man City will win it, IMO.

Last season it was the exact opposite for Liverpool in that they had the best record against their peers, but struggled to beat the likes of Hull and Stoke etc. this year they are beating all those teams so just need to raise their game against their peers.

They've also proved they can tick without Suarez and Gerrard, winning games when both have been injured. The start to this season was all recorded without Suarez.

My top 4 in no particular order will be Liverpool, Arsenal, City and Chelsea.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Any team in the EPL would be reliant on Suarez to some degree because he is the best player in the division by some distance. But even if he was missing for a few games, I'd still back Liverpool with Sturridge upfront to get results against most teams. They aren't all about one player, Rodgers has got them playing a really exciting, threatening style of football that relies on fast passing and pace from a number of players. Suarez is the jewel obviously, but he's far from carrying them in my opinion. They have some fantastic players in other positions, such as Coutinho.

Also, while they have lost against Arsenal, City and Chelsea, it is worth pointing out they have played all of them away from home. This could be important in the second half of the season as they play all of them at home, whereas United still have to go to the Bridge and the Emirates. And another thing, don't forget that Liverpool have no European action this season and are out of the League Cup. As Jose said the other day, such a light fixture list is a HUGE advantage for them.

and have beaten United, and hammered Spurs away.

 

[Simster]

I hope you're right. It would tremendous to see Man Utd fail to make the Champions League.

I'd love to see Real Madrid and Barcelona both fail to make it some time soon as well.

 

[GreersElbow]

You gotta ask yourself will any top players want to go near Man U now. Still think Moyes was a bizarre appointment, he's never won anything and now he's managing arguably the biggest club in the world.

To make it worse for Moyes, Martinez and Everton are storming the league. Given the budget size of Everyton v the big 6, Martinez hasn't done a lot of business. A couple of brilliant loan signings which may convince the chairman's cheque book to come out; but nonetheless, Moyes is doing what he did with Everton for 10 years, with United.


It's even better reading all the United fan's reactions and replies to criticism of their club. A clueless bunch of spoilt brats.

 

[Mellotron]

I hope you're right. It would tremendous to see Man Utd fail to make the Champions League.

I'd love to see Real Madrid and Barcelona both fail to make it some time soon as well.

Never going to happen. People complain about the Prem but it is MILES more competitive than practically any other European league.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's when the fun and games at Old Trafford really would start. I don't care if it is Manchester United, they will not be in a position to sign any world-class players if they cannot offer Champions League football.

I imagine their budgets are based on CL football as well. This might screw things up for them.

 

[Simster]

Never going to happen. People complain about the Prem but it is MILES more competitive than practically any other European league.

True enough I'm afraid.

In Spain, half of the ENTIRE television money goes to the big two. It is totally uncompetitive there, far more so than here. And as a consequence, there are NEVER going to be three other teams doing well enough to prevent either Real or Barca from finishing 4th at the very worst. Historically, Atletico Madrid, Valencia and Athletic Bilbao are the 3rd, 4th and 5th biggest clubs, and to prevent one of the big two from qualifying they would ALL have to have their best seasons for years (in some cases, several decades). Otherwise you're down to the likes of Espanyol, Sevilla and Sociedad to occupy a top 4 spot - which is rather like expecting Birmingham City to do the same.

 

[Simster]

I saw an interview with their CEO a few weeks ago in which this exact issue was raised. He said United can afford to have one season with no Champions League football without suffering any disastrous consequences. If they miss it for any longer than that they are, presumably, in trouble.

The problem they have if they miss it this year is not so much financial, but more the fact they will then not be able to sign the top players required to get them back in it, so it's a vicious circle. For this reason, I expect them to roll the dice this month and spend big on a couple of major recruits.

Man Utd spend something like £40m a year merely servicing that absurd debt that Glazer was allowed to set up. F**king ridiculous that he was allowed to do that.

Basically Man Utd are unable to sign the top class player they need every season to remain competitive, simply because that fat American dick is in charge of the club.

 

[crodonilson]

United are a class act, form is temporary and class is permanent. I still think they'll finish top 4, I reckon they'll pass Liverpool and probably Arsenal when they implode sometime soon.

 

[Ernest]

I can see United at this rate struggling to finish in the top 6 at this rate, an aging defence, lack of creativity in midfield and their 2 world class players struggling with injuries. I don't think even if Fergie had been manager they would have got in the top 4 as teams like Arsenal, Man City are improving at a rate of knots and Man U are regressing.

 

[Weststander]

A bit of both actually. Liverpool are HEAVILY reliant on Louis Suarez. He only has to pick up an injury or sending off and I think they will drop points. Also, Liverpool are a bit of a flat track bully. They are doing of good job of beating everyone outside the top 6 but struggle against teams they consider their piers. They also still have to go to Old Trafford, where I fancy them to get turned over. Man Utd are not the force they once were, but are still a decent side. They have been quite unlucky in some games I think. As much as I was pleased to see Spuz turn them over yesterday (especially as Spuz have been the victims of scandalous decisions at Man Utd down the years), they were very unlucky not to draw despite being off colour. Moyes was absolutely right - the Spurs keeper should have gone AND given away a penalty in the last few minutes.

BTW, I think Arsenal will finish third, and will finish around 5 points behind the other two. Either Chelsea or Man City will win it, IMO.

Get your facts right, don't just type a guess. Liverpool beat ManU in their last league encounter, Spurs in their last 2, and lost narrowly away from home against the expensively assembled Chelsea and ManC teams, where others had got slaughtered at the Etihad for example.

 

[El Presidente]

I imagine their budgets are based on CL football as well. This might screw things up for them.

United's budget is based on getting to the CL and qualifying for the last 16 according to David Gill, their ex-CEO.

 

[vegster]

I imagine their budgets are based on CL football as well. This might screw things up for them.

Could be several knock ons. Don't forget they are very big in Asia generating lots of cash in shirt sales ( Red is a lucky colour in China ) and streaming revenue. Maybe there might be a resurgence in Chinese interest in Liverpool if Suarez keeps banging them in and Rogers can add a little more flair. This, at the expense of United if they keep hovering in about 7th place for the next couple of seasons.

 

[gordonchas]

True enough I'm afraid.

In Spain, half of the ENTIRE television money goes to the big two. It is totally uncompetitive there, far more so than here. And as a consequence, there are NEVER going to be three other teams doing well enough to prevent either Real or Barca from finishing 4th at the very worst. Historically, Atletico Madrid, Valencia and Athletic Bilbao are the 3rd, 4th and 5th biggest clubs, and to prevent one of the big two from qualifying they would ALL have to have their best seasons for years (in some cases, several decades). Otherwise you're down to the likes of Espanyol, Sevilla and Sociedad to occupy a top 4 spot - which is rather like expecting Birmingham City to do the same.

I always wonder what people mean by "competitive" when they are comparing the Premier League to other leagues. Because the PL is not competitive at the top end. In the last 10 seasons, Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal have failed to qualify for the Champions League on 1 single occasion between them (when Chelsea finished 6th managed by Villas-Boas/Matteo, and they still qualified anyway by winning it). That's a success rate of 29 out of 30.

Manchester City are a new entry to that club for reasons we are all well aware of, but apart from those four, the only clubs to qualify for the Champions League in the last 10 years have been Spurs (twice), Liverpool (5 times, but not in any of the last four seasons) and Everton (once, back in 2004-05). That's seven clubs in all, and surprise, surprise, these are the only clubs who are actually challenging for the Champions League places in this "competitive" season. And I think we've all worked out who the top three will be, so that's at best a 3-horse race for the title - just like it is this season in Spain.

If you take the uncompetitive Spanish League, 8 different sides have qualified for the Champions League in the last four seasons alone (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico, Real Sociedad, Valencia, Malaga, Villarreal and Sevilla. A further three sides have also been there in the past ten seasons (Osasuna, Betis, Depor). Of those 11 teams, FIVE have been in the 2nd Division in the last 6 years.

So if we're talking about Barcelona and Real Madrid, nothing is going to challenge their hegemony, but Manchester United's financial power means that even if they do fail to qualify for the CL this time, they'll be back the season after no matter how many of us would love to see them fail.

 

[Simster]

I always wonder what people mean by "competitive" when they are comparing the Premier League to other leagues. Because the PL is not competitive at the top end. In the last 10 seasons, Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal have failed to qualify for the Champions League on 1 single occasion between them (when Chelsea finished 6th managed by Villas-Boas/Matteo, and they still qualified anyway by winning it). That's a success rate of 29 out of 30.

Manchester City are a new entry to that club for reasons we are all well aware of, but apart from those four, the only clubs to qualify for the Champions League in the last 10 years have been Spurs (twice), Liverpool (5 times, but not in any of the last four seasons) and Everton (once, back in 2004-05). That's seven clubs in all, and surprise, surprise, these are the only clubs who are actually challenging for the Champions League places in this "competitive" season. And I think we've all worked out who the top three will be, so that's at best a 3-horse race for the title - just like it is this season in Spain.

If you take the uncompetitive Spanish League, 8 different sides have qualified for the Champions League in the last four seasons alone (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico, Real Sociedad, Valencia, Malaga, Villarreal and Sevilla. A further three sides have also been there in the past ten seasons (Osasuna, Betis, Depor). Of those 11 teams, FIVE have been in the 2nd Division in the last 6 years.

So if we're talking about Barcelona and Real Madrid, nothing is going to challenge their hegemony, but Manchester United's financial power means that even if they do fail to qualify for the CL this time, they'll be back the season after no matter how many of us would love to see them fail.

So what you are saying is that 4th (and perhaps 3rd) spot is more readily available in Spain than it is here. That doesn't make it more competitive than the Premier League.

It is still a fact that 1st and 2nd have been occupied by Barca and RM for 8 of the last 9 seasons (Villareal finished 2nd in 2008). In England, in that same time frame, 1st and 2nd have been occupied by 5 different clubs.