[Football] Man City PL Charges

[SAC]

I see Talkshite are shite stirring and in Cities corner...

"Today's ruling could have a huge impact on Premier League shareholder loans"

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I would think that debt to any non owners is far more problematic.

Does it mean that interest free loans are not allowed and that all loans will need to be at market rate of interest?

 

[Insel affe]

I would think that debt to any non owners is far more problematic.

Does it mean that interest free loans are not allowed and that all loans will need to be at market rate of interest?

I think they are suggesting our loan is unfair

 

[ditchy]

I would like to know what is a Market rate of interest ? . Does the loan interest rate depend on the creditworthyness of the borrower to repay ? .Who is to say that the gulf states who own clubs do not deem the loans to their subsidiaries ! a better risk than say a corporate customer ?

 

[Blues Guitarist]

The easiest way to cheat this from the PL’s point of view (and I’ll say this, I absolutely believe they wish this went away and are only acting under duress):

- Give a big sounding penalty on the surface to appease those seeking recrimination. This will be in the form of a large fine, which Manchester City will not appeal and happily pay.

- Give a modest immediate points deduction in the 6-9 points region, not enough to harm their Champions League or even title credentials.

- Give an enormous point reduction (suspended for 3 years) which sounds amazing for the newspaper headlines, but will not ever be activated.


So, while I’m no football finance expert, this is my guess based on what the desired end-game for each party. The PL wanting to seem tough without actually hurting a prized asset, Man City needing that CL spot as a minimum, and the media getting their story of punishment.

Reading FC had 18 point deductions over three seasons for PSR breaches. If City were found guilty of a significant number of the charges against them the penalty would have to be at least an order of magnitude great than that. Not holding me breath.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Any club with enormous levels of income from TV/Prize Money/MAtch Day/European football/Global marketing deals, that still lose £35m per season are definitely doing something wrong.

The rules need to be changed so that the vast majority of PSR relates to football related income

• Matchday
• Player trading ( profit to be amortised over the remaining length of the players contract)
• Staff Wages
• Prize Money
• TV revenue

Add a capped figure for any other revenue

• Sponsorship
• Infrastructure trading
• Stakeholder loans

The cap prevents any club taking the piss in any one area, but would need to be high enough to represent fmv for the top club.

Points deduction set in stone for each £5m the target is missed by.
Ponts decuction to be applied at the beginning of the next season. Late filing = - 3 points for each month it's delayed.

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

The only trouble with a big points deduction is that we then have to put up with Arsenal or Liverpool winning the league.

When Man City win, it barely causes a ripple. But you’ll never hear the end of it from the plastics of the other two if they win it. No thank you.

Though if they’re deducted enough points to finish below us and open up a European spot which we sneak into… then we’re talking.

You need to see the positive side of things. If that happened and Arsenal/Liverpool won the league, you could easily wind up their fans by saying it didn't really count as Man City were "victimised" that year.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Interesting piece in The Athletic today with our resident dullard quoted as contributing to some of the figures supplied about shareholder loans and how the rules will need to be changed following last weeks ruling.

We, Everton and Arsenal are way ahead of everyone else when it comes to shareholder loans - the article states we likely haven’t got anything to worry about as we competed in Europe last season and UEFA already apply Fair Market Value rules to shareholder loans so we must have satisfied them. But are we in any potential difficulty at all and are we likely to see any changes at the Albion now? Will the loans just be converted to equity?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Intereting piece in The Athletic today with our resident dullard quoted as contributing to some of the figures supplied about shareholder loans and how the rules will need to be changed following last weeks ruling.

We, Everton and Arsenal are way ahead of everyone else when it comes to shareholder loans - the article states we likely haven’t got anything to worry about as we competed in Europe last season and UEFA already apply Fair Market Value rules to shareholder loans so we must have satisfied them. But are we in any potential difficulty at all and are we likely to see any changes at the Albion now? Will the loans just be converted to equity?

I think we made £150m profit 21/22 & 22/23 seasons.

So even if they want to charge FMV for the 3 years we are likely to be still a long way clear of the -£105m allowable losses.

 

[Farehamseagull]

I think we made £150m profit 21/22 & 22/23 seasons.

So even if they want to charge FMV for the 3 years we are likely to be still a long way clear of the -£105m allowable losses.

Going forward we’re not going to be making those profits every year though so will we have to make changes?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Going forward we’re not going to be making those profits every year though so will we have to make changes?

I'm pretty sure the Caicedo money is in the next set of accounts, so there is still some profit to come.

The immediate risk, is that City force the PL to apply the new rules retrospectively.
Landing us with a £90m (max) bill for 20 /21- 22/23
This will be a by-product of City forcing the PL to accept the APT rules were invalid from 2021 onwards.

For the future, Tony will make any necessary financial changes. to give the club teh best position.
He will be negotiating hard with the PL and other clubs to get the best way forward

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The immediate risk, is that City force the PL to apply the new rules retrospectively.

That just seems inconceivable to me. That's completely unfair on the clubs who have acted to meet the rules in good faith

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I'm pretty sure the Caicedo money is in the next set of accounts, so there is still some profit to come.

The immediate risk, is that City force the PL to apply the new rules retrospectively.
Landing us with a £90m (max) bill for 20 /21- 22/23
This will be a by-product of City forcing the PL to accept the APT rules were invalid from 2021 onwards.

For the future, Tony will make any necessary financial changes. to give the club teh best position.
He will be negotiating hard with the PL and other clubs to get the best way forward

I do not think the new rules could be applied retrospectively. What's the point in having rules, abiding by them and then being put into a position whereby your adherence counts for nothing and being penalized? No one would know where they stood in the future if that was the case.

 

[jcdenton08]

I do not think the new rules could be applied retrospectively. What's the point in having rules, abiding by them and then being put into a position whereby your adherence counts for nothing and being penalized? No one would know where they stood in the future if that was the case.

I agree, but it sort of makes sense for those at the top looking for a convenient “out”. Wouldn’t surprise me

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I agree, but it sort of makes sense for those at the top looking for a convenient “out”. Wouldn’t surprise me

Legally it wouldn't hold up though. What kind of precedent would that set? Frankly it would be immoral and ridiculous.

 

[jcdenton08]

Legally it wouldn't hold up though. What kind of precedent would that set? Frankly it would be immoral and ridiculous.

Yes… and? Nothing surprises me in football any more. Chelsea selling hotels and players to themselves to cheat finances is entirely immoral and ridiculous, yet it’s happened.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Legally it wouldn't hold up though. What kind of precedent would that set? Frankly it would be immoral and ridiculous.

I suspect there will be a load of negotiations to work it all through.
Some sort of amnesty will be declared or something similar.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Yes… and? Nothing surprises me in football any more. Chelsea selling hotels and players to themselves to cheat finances is entirely immoral and ridiculous, yet it’s happened.

Well I take your point but Chelsea appeared to find a loophole which has now been closed I think, but the instance we are taking about seems clear and unmuddied, it would have ramifications across all sports if that kind of treatment was meted out.

 

[jcdenton08]

Well I take your point but Chelsea appeared to find a loophole which has now been closed I think, but the insurance we are taking about seems clear and unmuddied, it would have ramifications across all sports if that kind of treatment was meted out.

Well naturally I hope you’re right, and you’re speaking of a just and fair world where money doesn’t buy justice in the corporate sector. I am a lot more cynical when it comes to the PL protecting their interests

 

[Flounce]

That just seems inconceivable to me. That's completely unfair on the clubs who have acted to meet the rules in good faith

Quite, the club that has cheated it’s way to multiple titles and cups and is taken to court about it has the financial clout to turn it around and instigate rule changes to block clubs like the Albion from ever competing with them? You couldn’t make it up. ****s.

Or maybe I am a bit thick and thinking above my pay grade

 

[Milano]

I absolutely despise Man City and everything they stand for. Far, far, more than I dislike Palace.

Everything and anyone associated with that club is tainted. "Pep" can f*** right off too.
I feel the same about Newcastle.

I can say without hesitation that if the same happened here I'd leave it all behind. Would I have done in my teens or 20s, probably not, so I don't blame their younger fans for being on the state-funded cheat fest, however their older ones are a disgrace.