Malaysian airline crash

[martyn20]

Probably!!!! Who runs RT? It was a station set up by the Kremlin. Fox news, as distasteful as it usually is, is not run by a government.

Fox News is totally anti-government, they want to impeach the President for godsake, hardly government run!!!?!!!
Replying to Drew but clearly directed at Czechmate

 

[dingodan]

Yes, but there's not many that get a word named after them to describe their appallingly consistent bias. Pilger isn't just known for it, he's the benchmark. The man could bot write an unbiased piece about Western values if his life depended on it, he's so mired in his own prejudices.

Christopher Hitchens on Pilger: "...here is a word that gets overused and can be misused – namely, anti-American – and it has to be used about him."

And in reference to a piece Pilger wrote about the US having a hand in precipitating the uprising in Ukraine he made a big thing of quoting a bogus interview with a totally made-up Jewish doctor who claimed neo-nazis were behind demonstrations.

http://www.rferl.org/content/guardian-op-ed-quotes-cryptic-odesa-doctor-seen-as-hoax/25385076.html


Pilger is not unbiased. He never has been. He never will be.

I haven't seen this aspect of the story covered in this country, why do you suppose that is?

For starters, Andriy Parubiy, the new secretary of Ukraine's security council, was a co-founder of the Neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), otherwise known as Svoboda. And his deputy, Dmytro Yarosh, is the leader of a party called the Right Sector which, according to historian Timothy Stanley, "flies the old flag of the Ukrainian Nazi collaborators at its rallies."

The highest-ranking right-wing extremist is Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Sych, also a member of Svoboda, who believes that women should "lead the kind of lifestyle to avoid the risk of rape, including refraining from drinking alcohol and being in controversial company." This is the philosophy underlying one of his "legal initiatives," according to the Kyiv Post, "to ban all abortions, even for pregnancies that occurred during rape."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/the-neo-nazi-question-in_b_4938747.html

 

[dingodan]

Fox News is totally anti-government, they want to impeach the President for godsake, hardly government run!!!?!!!
Replying to Drew but clearly directed at Czechmate

Go back and watch some Fox News during the Bush Presidency. They are not "government run", but they are effectively run by the Republican establishment.

Interesting to watch the difference between CNN/MSNBC then and now too...

 

[Buzzer]

I suggested that helping a regime comprised of Neo Nazis could be a threat to the Jewish population of Ukraine, like helping Islamist rebels in Syria has become a threat to the Christian population of Iraq.

I don't want to see people get persecuted. You calling my concerns about Neo Nazis "prejudice" is ill thought out I think.

So...how do you explain the most influential Ukrainian Jewish leaders taking out a full-page advert in the New York Times addressing Putin in person and stating categorically that they had nothing to fear from any of the Ukrainian political parties. They also went out of their way to criticise Putin who, they wrote:

“And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government — which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services.”

http://www.jta.org/2014/03/27/news-opinion/world/ukrainian-jews-slam-putin-in-full-page-ad-in-new-york-times


These are actual Jews in Ukraine. Not the made-up ones that Pilger quotes.

 

[dingodan]

So...how do you explain the most influential Ukrainian Jewish leaders taking out a full-page advert in the New York Times addressing Putin in person and stating categorically that they had nothing to fear from any of the Ukrainian political parties. They also went out of their way to criticise Putin who, they wrote:

“And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government — which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services.”

http://www.jta.org/2014/03/27/news-opinion/world/ukrainian-jews-slam-putin-in-full-page-ad-in-new-york-times


These are actual Jews in Ukraine. Not the made-up ones that Pilger quotes.

Jewish Telegraphic Agency also reports:

Many Ukrainian Jews and several Ukrainian Jewish leaders supported the revolution that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych despite the prominent role played in the uprising by leaders of the ultranationalist Svoboda party. Svoboda’s leader and other prominent party figures have a history of making anti-Semitic statements. Other Ukrainian Jews saw the revolution as dangerous.

Several anti-Semitic attacks occurred during the unrest, including two stabbings in Kiev, some assaults of religious Jews, an act of vandalism at a Crimean synagogue and the attempted torching of another synagogue. Anti-Semitic violence typically is rare in Ukraine.

http://www.jta.org/2014/03/26/news-...nian-jews-for-criticizing-putin#ixzz38CXt1jNq

 

[Buzzer]

Jewish Telegraphic Agency also reports:



http://www.jta.org/2014/03/26/news-...nian-jews-for-criticizing-putin#ixzz38CXt1jNq

And Jewish Telegraphic Agency also reports earlier this week in Melbourne in your own country. And in Paris. And in Belgium.

http://www.jta.org/tags/anti-semitic-attacks-in-melbourne

And from the Huffington Post, a news website that you place great store by.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abraham-h-foxman/russia-plays-the-anti-sem_b_4966730.html

"That is why it is so important to say that Russia's claims about anti-Semitism in Ukraine's revolution are simply not true. They are an effort to delegitimize the actions of the Ukrainian people and to win sympathy for Russia's defiance of international law."

 

[Buzzer]

We can play this game all day, but the fact remains that Ukrainian Jews feel safe enough in their own country to tell the world about it, notwithstanding isolated attacks which are not unique to Ukraine.

It's also worth adding that when the likes of Putin are portrayed by some on here as saviour of the Jewish people in Eastern Europe that's just downright offensive. Russia has a huge anti-semitic problem, far worse than Ukraine.

 

[martyn20]

Go back and watch some Fox News during the Bush Presidency. They are not "government run", but they are effectively run by the Republican establishment.

Interesting to watch the difference between CNN/MSNBC then and now too...

What happens in America is they have elections and the winners become the government, the GOP have not been the government for 6 years now, so Fox News is an opposition run media company currently.
What happens in Russia is they have sham elections due to the fact Putin has outlawed any opposition, RT is a government run media company.

 

[martyn20]

Russian Television Under Spotlight After Malaysia Airlines Crash in Ukraine

The crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 exposes the truth about RT, the Russian English-language propaganda outlet............

http://time.com/3014822/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-rt-russian-television/

 

[daveinprague]

USA should keep their noses out of this one.....theres only two or three countries that have been guilty of this sort of crime against civil airliners, and the USA is one of them.

 

[martyn20]

USA should keep their noses out of this one.

They are, Obama wants the EU to deal with this one

 

[martyn20]

Black boxes are on their way to London eventually, so Farnborough I would guess, good news indeed

 

[dingodan]

What happens in America is they have elections and the winners become the government, the GOP have not been the government for 6 years now, so Fox News is an opposition run media company currently.
What happens in Russia is they have sham elections due to the fact Putin has outlawed any opposition, RT is a government run media company.

One of the best documentaries I have ever seen, drastically changed my view on the Mainstream Media in the U.S.

If you ever have the time, you would benefit from giving it a watch.

 

[dingodan]

USA should keep their noses out of this one.....theres only two or three countries that have been guilty of this sort of crime against civil airliners, and the USA is one of them.

Ukraine has shot down a civilian place in recent times, as has Russia.

Accidents in all cases obviously.

 

[martyn20]

It is so helpful when posts are changed after they have been replied to, almost impossible to keep a discussion going

 

[Insel affe]

Ukraine has shot down a civilian place in recent times, as has Russia.

Accidents in all cases obviously.

As has the USA

 

[daveinprague]

sorry Martyn... i was reminded of previous cases, so added it...
USA shot down an Iranian airliner..with an ship-borne anti aircraft missile...over Iran..when there wasnt even a war... and not sure they even apologised.

 

[dingodan]

As has the USA

Yes, all 3.

 

[dingodan]

sorry Martyn... i was reminded of previous cases, so added it...
USA shot down an Iranian airliner..with an ship-borne anti aircraft missile...over Iran..when there wasnt even a war... and not sure they even apologised.

To be fair, the U.S. did admit it immediately I believe.

When Ukraine did it, they initially denied it.

When Russia did it, the U.S. fabricated evidence that it was deliberate when it wasn't.

I have no idea how the scores above add up, but them is the facts.

 

[martyn20]

sorry Martyn... i was reminded of previous cases, so added it...
USA shot down an Iranian airliner..with an ship-borne anti aircraft missile...over Iran..when there wasnt even a war... and not sure they even apologised.

There were small naval engagements between US/Nato and small Iranian ships at the time. The moment the plane was shot down the ship was under attack from Iranian gunboats, they identified the plane as an Iranian F-14, military and passenger jets came out of the same airport at the time, and took it as hostile and fired at it.
While the US has admitted they did it and paid large compensation to the Iranian families involved they have not taken legal responsibility due to what that would open them up to, technicality, they did it for sure and they do not say anything different