Czechmate
Well-known member
Bit like Kiev then with Ukrainians
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Malaysian airline crash
- Thread starter surrey jim
- Start date
Bit like Kiev then with Ukrainians
Creaky
Well-known member
That poster missed the second part of the definition
"A judicial decision that may be used as a standard in subsequent similar cases"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/precedent
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
A precedent is not "binding" or "non-binding", are you thinking of a resolution? A precedent is the occurrence of something which gives an example for future cases. Usually, like in this case, it is used in the context of legal decisions. So in this case, it was decided that something was lawful, so when the same thing happens again in future, it can be considered lawful - based on legal precedent (because the law doesn't need to be established every time a question arises).
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
The important words are 'may be used', there are countless world court rulings that maybe used in countless cases but that particular ruling does not have direct bearing over Crimea unless council on one side or another bring it up at a hearing for the judge or jury to ponder.
Czechmate
Well-known member
I am stating it as a fact , you do look like the prime minister of Ukraine !!!! sorry just trying to bring a bit of humour to this tragic event . I mean your Avatar
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
Ok so as I said before show me where this case of Kosovo has legal bearing on the case of Crimea. When a court makes a ruling it can make a binding precedent which applies to all similar cases or non-binding which means he has made the ruling but it only applies to this particular case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent#Binding_precedent
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
Fair play, I stand corrected.
Shouldn't any people who want to declare independence be able to though?
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
Not without consulting and getting agreement from the government of that country. As I said with Scotland they could only have an independence vote when they had agreement from the UK government. They still have legal control over Scotland right now.
Creaky
Well-known member
I agree but claiming as you did
suggests that it 'absolutely' has no relevance to the current situation which it balatantly has as Russia has used the 'Kosovo decision' to try and justify its involvment.
Until such time as the case is brought before the International Court of Justice or a political agreement is made between the Ukraine and Russia we can't determine how much influence the court's decision over Kosovo may or may not have.
Czechmate
Well-known member
I just like to say at this stage again , why is there no news reports or pictures in the papers of Ukraine civilians being fired upon by jets and rockets in Eastern Ukraine , many hundreds of men women and children have been killed , many 100,0000's have left home to be safer in Russia away from a more European and westernised society , why have reporters been shot at and killed by the Ukrainian army 
? These are important issues which the west don't seem to want to cover ?? It is the Ukrainians that suffer , it is them we should be thinking about as well as the people on the flight .
I like to also say that the flight was being monitored by the Ukraine air control , they were asked to take another route and to fly lower why but you won't see that on BBC news or CNN or in the morning papers .
? These are important issues which the west don't seem to want to cover ?? It is the Ukrainians that suffer , it is them we should be thinking about as well as the people on the flight . I like to also say that the flight was being monitored by the Ukraine air control , they were asked to take another route and to fly lower
why but you won't see that on BBC news or CNN or in the morning papers .Czechmate
Well-known member
Like the Ukrainians in Kiev that started all this ?
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
The ruling has no effect on any World Court case involving Crimea, as it's non-binding the ruling only effects the Kosovo ruling.
Creaky
Well-known member
. . . you are still ignoring the ICJ's decision over Kosovo - There is no international law governing such situations - It would be illegal in the case of Crimea if the UN declared it so but of course they can't as Russia would veto any such resolution.
Creaky
Well-known member
Indeed but as per your link the 'Kosovo decision' would be persuasive precedent if a case regarding Crimea is brought before it - so it is not true to say "it means nothing at all in this case"
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
I am not ignoring anything but that case only effects Kosovo, it does not have any bearing on other or future cases. It can be brought up in a future court case as a guide to be discussed but that's it.
Apart from the ports which were legally owned by Russia the rest of Crimea is owned by Ukraine and any changes to that have to be agreed by Ukraine. (I hate the word owned but legally it fits here)
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
But a persuasive precedent is not binding on future cases, it can be accepted or totally disregarded by a judge or a jury.
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
Sorry. We've split posts.
I don't trust any leader. I think they say what they want and then do very different.
I'm not discrediting your trips to Ukraine, but can you really get a definite grip as to how they feel in such visits?
I spent six weeks in Cuba and the population were perfectly happy. That is not the story on the outside. Dig a little deeper and things were quite desperate.
Creaky
Well-known member
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
So it may mean something in this case
It will mean as much or as little as any ruling that court has ever made in the past on any subject. I am sure any judge would research all similar cases from all similar courts this case is no more or no less likely to change any opinion.
Czechmate
Well-known member
I see your point , but most Ukrainians that I knew in Kiev , Dnepropetrovsk , Odessa and Donestk were happy enough as things were . Once the coup took place in Kiev because of the contract change about being closer to the EU with the old president , no one in Ukraine that I knew and people interviewed after knew what was even in the contract with closer ties with Europe ? the contract change was years ago anyway so why did they decide to change president (when they could of done it democratically) only when outside influence persuaded them to ?? I still have contact with these people in Ukraine and by the way they all want peace just like the rest of us .