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Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter GingerBeerMan
- Start date
He is smart in his field, but that doesn't mean he's not prone to getting things very wrong (as demonstrated with his capsule that was completely inappropriate for rescuing the children from the cave). You claim to be interested in the truth, but you grab onto any wild accusation you find online, and ignore reliable news outlets.
Are you even aware that your graph has cherry-picked results? Why don't you show New Zealand on there? They've had a total of 20 deaths. And why don't you show Australia? They've had 93 deaths. Both only 4 deaths per million population.
Although they've not enforced a lockdown in Sweden, people are practicing social distancing anyway. And while we have a lockdown in the UK, we are still allowed to go out, and we are still allowed to work. You should then also take into account that the UK is a much more densely populated country than Sweden. And much of the US hasn't had a proper lockdown, and the deaths in New York were mounting before any lockdown started.
Are you actually interested in learning the truth, or just repeating what you see on dodgy sites?
That might just be the most moronic chart I have ever seen, you cannot compare Asian countries that were prepared for this outbreak due to SARS to any European country and the other countries mentioned are laughable. Mexico inclusioncases there are absolutely blowing up but are being under reported and the healthcare system is a shambles and they are at a totally different phase of the outbreak
England population density- 400+ people per KM(2016)
Iceland 3 people per KM
Sweden 63 people per KM
Belarus 120 people per KM
and regrettably, watch Belarus go
That might just be the most moronic chart I have ever seen, you cannot compare Asian countries that were prepared for this outbreak due to SARS to any European country and the other countries mentioned are laughable. Mexico inclusion
England population density- 400+ people per KM(2016)
Iceland 3 people per KM
Sweden 63 people per KM
Belarus 120 people per KM
Not if you are counting British Antarctica, which you need to be doing if you are counting the enormous uninhabited areas of Sweden, Belarus and Iceland.
Albion Dan
Banned
Albion Dan
Banned
Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Dicsussion Thread
The way you’ve presented that Sweden stat is a sham as majority of people are based in urban centres/cities.
https://studyinsweden.se/why-sweden/quick-facts-about-sweden/
Therefore they have fared MUCH better than us without lockdown. It’s a fact.
That might just be the most moronic chart I have ever seen, you cannot compare Asian countries that were prepared for this outbreak due to SARS to any European country and the other countries mentioned are laughable. Mexico inclusion
England population density- 400+ people per KM(2016)
Iceland 3 people per KM
Sweden 63 people per KM
Belarus 120 people per KM
The way you’ve presented that Sweden stat is a sham as majority of people are based in urban centres/cities.
https://studyinsweden.se/why-sweden/quick-facts-about-sweden/
Therefore they have fared MUCH better than us without lockdown. It’s a fact.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
However, it has been mentioned many times that Swedes had a kind of self imposed lockdown anyway. There are articles online about the empty shops and restaurants for instance.
Well.. sort of. I went on a pub round Friday last week and then again on Thursday a couple of days ago, for the first two times in months, and I was quite surprised to see how relatively normal everything was. Maybe 20% less people than there would have been normally but still pretty crowded and only one of the five pubs I went to followed the government recommendations of "only table serving" and social distancing.
Sure, there's a difference in general - but a fairly small one, though its possible the elderly take this far more serious - I dont know, there arent many where I live and not many on the pubs I go to.
I think there is probably some other factor, like very low air pollution in our big cities for a very long time, or some genetical aspect (since immigrants are very overrepresented in our Covid statistics), that keeps our numbers lower than they "should be" considering we have no lockdown.
Rodney Thomas
Well-known member
On the other hand Eastern and East Mediterranean (EU countries) have done much better than Sweden. They went into lockdown early and strongly, saving thousands of lives.
Albion Dan
Banned
Obviously. If you lock yourself up in fear and shut your country down completely then It’s impossible for the virus to spread. But do you live like that until a vaccine is found (which may never happen)?
The Wizard
Well-known member
- Jul 2, 2009
- 18,399
And yet you don’t compare Sweden to all the rest of their Nordic neighbours, wonder why?
Look how many people this virus has killed already, you think carrying on as normal wouldn’t have killed probably many times the amount of people and destroyed our health service? Sweden has 3 cities above 250k population, the U.K. has 29. How about that aye?
And yet you don’t compare Sweden to all the rest of their Nordic neighbours, wonder why?
Sweden has 3 cities above 250k population, the U.K. has 29. How about that aye?
Just shows the chances are hundreds of thousands, if not millions more have had it here which brings the death rate percentage down.
Rodney Thomas
Well-known member
No, but you give yourself time to prepare. Again, saving countless lives.
They are not saving thousands of lives, they are postponing thousands of deaths.
People all over the world are criticising our strategy, mocking how we "allow people to die" (we have 23% more deaths than a normal, how about you?) , "sacrifice people to save the economy" - as if totally crashing your economy leads to no deaths.
Studies show that suicides increase significantly in times of and immediatly after a economical crisis. Drug abuse and poor general health is also tied to poverty (and isolation), and cost lives.
And if we are "sacrificing" lives by having no lockdown while you are among the worst off in the whole world while having your beloved lockdown, what would that indicate about the competence of your (elected) government, your populations intelligence in regards of adhering to social distancing and the shape of your society?
But I dont really think you are stupid - you are just suffering from cognitive dissonance any time you hear about Sweden: you have one part of your brain saying 'its not too bad in Sweden despite their freedom..." and another part of your brain processing the endless fearmongering from your toxic, destructive tabloids.
It gets very complicated to digest that what you are doing might cost more lives and more of your resources than what we're doing.
Its very demanding and hurting to take a look at your society and see - shit, we're ruled by fear and our politics is a type of personality cult where political decisions are made not out of long-term scientific decisions, but too avoid getting hanged by the media and the angry (but mostly scared) mob getting influenced by it.
Its way easier to look in another direction and say "LOOK, POPULATION DENSITY!!!" or "LOOK, MORE DEATHS THAN NORWAY!!!".
I'm not saying we're perfect neither when it comes to this crisis or otherwise - i.e. we have a growing collection of social issues and as for the virus, our elderly care is so poor and underfinanced by the both the government and the yanks buying it that there is no way of protecting the oldest. We have a lot to learn in that area.
But as for rational, sensible, long-term stability political measures - short term "immoral" or not - we have an astonishing record and a lot of governments and societys could learn a lot from it. I mean, take a look at your recent political history and try to convince me its not a complete ****ing shitshow determined by a fear of everything and the direction of the wind. It needs to end and thats where your focus should be rather than ridiculing us for not following you on your path that we consider a lot more risky and dangerous than the one we're currently taking.
When this shit returns and you have little immunity in your population compared to us, you'll likely (unfortunately) understand the concept of making decisions based on looking further than tomorrows newspaper.
Yours is 23% above, ours is around 52%. The cases to deaths ratio for both nations is around 8 and both are holding steady to falling. Sweden is a relative success compared to the UK.
However, New Zealand with a similar geographical isolation and low population, compared to the UK, did much better than Sweden and locked it down good and tight.
There is no right or wrong way when comparing countries because everywhere is different.
Yep. And 6% of New Zealand's GDP comes from tourism. People aren't going to go there on holiday if they have to factor in two weeks' quarantine are they?
Think certain governments will massively regret going hard on scaremongering.
Yes, explain the issues - but we are now faced with people either not wanting to go back to work or can’t.
Plus the people who will milk this for al it’s worth
Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Dicsussion Thread
That’s just a statement of fact.
My point was that, to date, we are doing worse than countries with strict lockdowns but also worse than Sweden. Being in the middle, ostensibly, hasn’t worked as well
We now test over 100k a day. We’ve sourced PPE. We may be able to get more oxygen and CPAP machines lined up. Nightingale hospitals are closing. So it seems the “delay” has worked - except Sweden flattened its curve in a more liberal manner with, for now, better results.
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That’s just a statement of fact.
My point was that, to date, we are doing worse than countries with strict lockdowns but also worse than Sweden. Being in the middle, ostensibly, hasn’t worked as well
We now test over 100k a day. We’ve sourced PPE. We may be able to get more oxygen and CPAP machines lined up. Nightingale hospitals are closing. So it seems the “delay” has worked - except Sweden flattened its curve in a more liberal manner with, for now, better results.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well said old chap.
Good luck trying to get through to the brainwashed.
Destroying the economy (which will massively effect our health service and have a severe impact on death rates in the future) because of a bad flu season where 99%+ of the people that died from this would’ve died within about a year anyway. It’s insane.
If the media actually reported on this correctly, the brainwashed wouldn’t have the views they do now.