Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'm not sure A1X is saying anyone said it's funny, but I do recall many posts on here from most of the usual suspects, deriding the graphs and language used by Whitty and Vallance, seemingly saying they were making it up...

Those very posters are now strangely quiet about the numbers and appear to have moved on to conspiracy theories from Facebook and YouTube instead...

The numbers that simply back up what we’ve said before?

The oldest are affected

They have ****ed up in the care homes again instead of protecting them? 30 percent of out breaks are in care homes

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-54719827

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ws/five-cheshire-east-care-homes-19066525.amp




Pretty much what a few off us have been saying we should avoid with targeted protection

 

[sparkie]

At what point does a full 2nd national lockdown kick in ?

500 deaths per day ? 1000 ? 1500 ?

 

[Guinness Boy]

View attachment 129861

One month “circuit breaker” semi-lockdown for us over the whole of November. Hopefully it will sort things out in time for Xmas.

Semi-lockdown sounds like the tier system so.....

At what point does a full 2nd national lockdown kick in ?

500 deaths per day ? 1000 ? 1500 ?

Watch Boris* leave it until everywhere is in Tier 2 or 3. That's effectively a semi-lockdown but with no end date and he can say he never put the country into a full national lockdown. That's literally how disingenuous he is.

*this is a prediction, not a conspiracy

 

[Bozza]

The numbers that simply back up what we’ve said before?

The oldest are affected

They have ****ed up in the care homes again instead of protecting them? 30 percent of out breaks are in care homes

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-54719827

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ws/five-cheshire-east-care-homes-19066525.amp

Pretty much what a few off us have been saying we should avoid with targeted protection

Whilst anyone vaguely sensible has repeatedly said that it's just not possible to "protect the vulnerable" in a society such as ours - there is too much social interaction.

Carers in care homes have to go home each day They will have other family who will be going out to work and children going to school. Once the virus spread has picked up sufficiently, it's near impossible to stop it getting anywhere that people are coming and going.

"Protect the vulnerable" is wishy-washy idealistic nonsense that has no practical merit whatsoever.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Whilst anyone vaguely sensible has repeatedly said that it's just not possible to "protect the vulnerable" in a society such as ours - there is too much social interaction.

Carers in care homes have to go home each day They will have other family who will be going out to work and children going to school. Once the virus spread has picked up sufficiently, it's near impossible to stop it getting anywhere that people are coming and going.

"Protect the vulnerable" is wishy-washy idealistic nonsense that has no practical merit whatsoever.

As mentioned the other day, we still have care workers visiting different care homes across areas, why is that still happening

Why are care workers not being tested daily? Same with hospital workers - tests allow this now ?

We have spent 12 billion on track and trace that doesn’t work, this would have been better of being spent on covering the cost attached to shielding.

The issue is still care home and hospital outbreaks and it’s still not being fixed.

Is it easy? No - but nor is it impossible.

 

[Bozza]

Disgraceful, crank theories, idolising lying loons such as Icke, whilst disparaging people who serve to save lives.

I find myself laughing and smiling at the weird musings of conspiracy liars. “Theorists” sounds too grand.

Sacha Baron Cohen gave a brilliant speech to the Anti-Defamation League last year which covered some of what we are now witnessing. Two excerpts:

Today around the world, demagogues appeal to our worst instincts. Conspiracy theories once confined to the fringe are going mainstream. It’s as if the Age of Reason – the era of evidential argument – is ending, and now knowledge is delegitimized and scientific consensus is dismissed. Democracy, which depends on shared truths, is in retreat, and autocracy, which depends on shared lies, is on the march. Hate crimes are surging, as are murderous attacks on religious and ethnic minorities.

On the internet, everything can appear equally legitimate. Breitbart resembles the BBC. The fictitious Protocols of the Elders of Zion look as valid as an ADL report. And the rantings of a lunatic seem as credible as the findings of a Nobel prize winner. We have lost, it seems, a shared sense of the basic facts upon which democracy depends.
​

 

[Bozza]

As mentioned the other day, we still have care workers visiting different care homes across areas, why is that still happening

Why are care workers not being tested daily? Same with hospital workers - tests allow this now ?

We have spent 12 billion on track and trace that doesn’t work, this would have been better of being spent on covering the cost attached to shielding.

The issue is still care home and hospital outbreaks and it’s still not being fixed.

Is it easy? No - but nor is it impossible.

Simplistic twaddle, I'm afraid chap, particularly when we have the levels of community infection we are now dealing with.

And you've been railing against restrictions designed to temper viral spread, remember.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Whilst anyone vaguely sensible has repeatedly said that it's just not possible to "protect the vulnerable" in a society such as ours - there is too much social interaction.

Carers in care homes have to go home each day They will have other family who will be going out to work and children going to school. Once the virus spread has picked up sufficiently, it's near impossible to stop it getting anywhere that people are coming and going.

"Protect the vulnerable" is wishy-washy idealistic nonsense that has no practical merit whatsoever.

Nevertheless worrying for anyone with a relative in a care home

 

[darkwolf666]

The numbers that simply back up what we’ve said before?

The oldest are affected

They have ****ed up in the care homes again instead of protecting them? 30 percent of out breaks are in care homes

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-54719827

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ws/five-cheshire-east-care-homes-19066525.amp




Pretty much what a few off us have been saying we should avoid with targeted protection

Which means 70% aren’t!

 

[LamieRobertson]

That's pretty much it, yes.

Scroll back through this thread to 21st September - that's when Vallance and Whitty did their thing - and you can see the disdain from the usual suspects for the warnings they were giving us.

I really don't understand those that approach all of this with such a cynical "what are they trying to get over on us?" type of mindset.

I don’t understand why some have such a closed mind either

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Simplistic twaddle, I'm afraid chap, particularly when we have the levels of community infection we are now dealing with.

And you've been railing against restrictions designed to temper viral spread, remember.

I’ve been pushing for the middle ground

Not the destruction of the country and lives elsewhere

 

[LamieRobertson]

Which means 70% aren’t!

Obviously ...but surely you have to look behind the headline figure and target the components that it’s made of

 

[LamieRobertson]

I’ve been pushing for the middle ground

Not the destruction of the country and lives elsewhere

I’d give up if I were you .....

Ps France have gone the same way as Germany

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Which means 70% aren’t!

Point to me where 80/90 under 65s are dying daily

The care homes and the hospitals are the issues

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I’d give up if I were you .....

Ps France have gone the same way as Germany

Now actively going against Who advice.

 

[Weststander]

Sacha Baron Cohen gave a brilliant speech to the Anti-Defamation League last year which covered some of what we are now witnessing. Two excerpts:

Today around the world, demagogues appeal to our worst instincts. Conspiracy theories once confined to the fringe are going mainstream. It’s as if the Age of Reason – the era of evidential argument – is ending, and now knowledge is delegitimized and scientific consensus is dismissed. Democracy, which depends on shared truths, is in retreat, and autocracy, which depends on shared lies, is on the march. Hate crimes are surging, as are murderous attacks on religious and ethnic minorities.

On the internet, everything can appear equally legitimate. Breitbart resembles the BBC. The fictitious Protocols of the Elders of Zion look as valid as an ADL report. And the rantings of a lunatic seem as credible as the findings of a Nobel prize winner. We have lost, it seems, a shared sense of the basic facts upon which democracy depends.
​

I only ever knew one loon who believed the lot, this goes back to the late 80’s onwards. Pre internet he was an influencer of that bullshit, pushing it the vulnerable elderly.

Having a mischievous, satirical sense of humour, I simply took the piss out of his baloney.

Now, from nowhere and frighteningly, this is now a huge movement. Within my family, relatives, lifelong friends, young and old, I know a load of kids and adults who are heavily into this. Icke is loved.

Contrary to the common theory and James O’Brien has got this wrong, they’re not all right wing Brexiteers. Many are apolitical or lifelong Labour voters.

I have some strange conversations about Icke, where I try to talk about the alien murderous lizards masquerading as Johnson, Starmer, Gates and Clooney .... things get tense, the conspiracy theorist family members are hyper sensitive. Similarly on the entwined antisemitism ... I’m emphatically told that Icke is only against the murder of arabs.

The whole thing stinks. A parallel universe of lies, I don’t think most Brits have cottoned on yet what’s happening to many millions of their fellow countrymen. This is serious.

 

[Weststander]

Point to me where 80/90 under 65s are dying daily

The care homes and the hospitals are the issues

View attachment 129867

We knew that in the spring. The same in France, Sweden, Belgium and Spain.

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]’s post #14144 covered the practicalities.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Semi-lockdown sounds like the tier system so.....

New restrictions for the next month:
Restaurants and bars will close, except for take-away
Large events will be canceled again
Unnecessary travel is strongly discouraged
Overnight stays in hotels for tourist purposes is banned
All those who can work from home should do so and employers should ease a transition into working from home
Meetings in public will be restricted to just two households of up to 10 people total.
Entertainment facilities such as theaters and cinemas will be closed
Public recreation centers such as swimming pools, gyms and saunas will be closed
No crowds at sports events


What is allowed:
Schools and kindergartens will remain open
Church services and protests will be allowed to continue due constitutional concerns
Nursing home residents will be allowed to receive visitors.
Shops will remain open, with one customer allowed per 10 square meters (108 square feet).
Borders remain open

 

[LamieRobertson]

New restrictions for the next month:
Restaurants and bars will close, except for take-away
Large events will be canceled again
Unnecessary travel is strongly discouraged
Overnight stays in hotels for tourist purposes is banned
All those who can work from home should do so and employers should ease a transition into working from home
Meetings in public will be restricted to just two households of up to 10 people total.
Entertainment facilities such as theaters and cinemas will be closed
Public recreation centers such as swimming pools, gyms and saunas will be closed
No crowds at sports events


What is allowed:
Schools and kindergartens will remain open
Church services and protests will be allowed to continue due constitutional concerns
Nursing home residents will be allowed to receive visitors.
Shops will remain open, with one customer allowed per 10 square meters (108 square feet).
Borders remain open

How does that one customer per ten square metres work ...is that similar to earlier in the year?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Sacha Baron Cohen gave a brilliant speech to the Anti-Defamation League last year which covered some of what we are now witnessing. Two excerpts:

Today around the world, demagogues appeal to our worst instincts. Conspiracy theories once confined to the fringe are going mainstream. It’s as if the Age of Reason – the era of evidential argument – is ending, and now knowledge is delegitimized and scientific consensus is dismissed. Democracy, which depends on shared truths, is in retreat, and autocracy, which depends on shared lies, is on the march. Hate crimes are surging, as are murderous attacks on religious and ethnic minorities.

On the internet, everything can appear equally legitimate. Breitbart resembles the BBC. The fictitious Protocols of the Elders of Zion look as valid as an ADL report. And the rantings of a lunatic seem as credible as the findings of a Nobel prize winner. We have lost, it seems, a shared sense of the basic facts upon which democracy depends.
​

I'm going to have to search that out.

There is, of course, lots and lots of power and money associated with all of this. At a macro level China and Russia are incredibly adept at steering the online conversation along with other types of cyber war. Tim Marshall's Prisoners of Geography talks about the politics and military options that exist conventionally due to geographical restrictions. Whether protected by mountains or hampered by lack of water, whatever. Russia, with a huge landmass but no real warm water port does badly, China partially so. But now there are no borders with cyber crime - they can control simply with technology.

On the micro level there is huge money to be made from youtube et al. HUGE money. Before, to have a platform in the West you had, at least, to get past the Enlightenment age controls of four channel media. Now literally anyone can have a platform and the big ones make millions. Why not peddle nonsense, stoke conspiracy? Early on, I think on this thread, somone posted a nonsense Covid conspiracy video. The bloke was talking grade A bollocks but he was doing it from a massive apartment in Tokyo filled with the latest Apple gear. Crime might not pay but criminally bogus thought clearly does.

And there's always some drug addled hatter who thinks he knows best ready to copy and paste that shit all over the internet and then claim that it's YOU who's closed minded.

I despair.