I also think cases are a bit of a misnomer because we simply didn't have the ability to test people in March. For all we know a million people could have had it at the start of lockdown and we'd never have known.
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Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter GingerBeerMan
- Start date
Regardless of ages and seriousness of those getting it, this table shows admissions to hospitals with Covid rising sharply. I'm not really sure it matters how old they are (perhaps it does to some) but the rate of increase looks set to continue and that will produce some really nasty numbers in a week or two.
I'm not going to argue the rights or wrongs or some spurious interpretation just putting the numbers up as it alarmed me
I'm not going to argue the rights or wrongs or some spurious interpretation just putting the numbers up as it alarmed me
When we are shutting down areas of the economy which is causing more issues along the line, they do matter.
Pubs/Restaurants are getting the brunt of the blame here - where is the science behind it? Whitty’s reasoning used data from the USA and a tiny selection of pubs to back up the closing.
Also - what numbers of those are going into hospital because of covid and not testing positive for covid when checking in for something else - which goes down as covid
The stats are awful they have had 7 moths to sort this shit out
I can't get my head round arguing the economic impact vs the impact on the health of thousands of people. It's not my decision to make and I'm firmly on the fence. Indeed I don't envy anyone having to make those sorts of decisions, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Call me naive but I believe the numbers. If the NHS say Covid, good enough for me, but I'm sure I'll be presented examples where it wasn't
The whole world has had 7 months to 'sort this shit out' and it seems to me the only ones that really have are either misleading the rest of the world (so they haven't) or are using means which 'infringe on the human rights' (I'm OK with it btw) of their populations (so we won't accept that). If it were so easy why wouldn't others do it and why don't they read this thread and find out what they're doing wrong?
Richy_Seagull
Well-known member
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/half-covid-19-patients-hospital-4590843
This is one hospital and small numbers, but what’s to say this isn’t happening all over the country?
Are other countries doing this? I don’t know? Seems flawed to me and this is just one example.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
Err, if they tested positive they know they have it?
Or do you mean did they know they had it before they were tested?
Either way it's the same thing - those that don't know they have it, and are going about their usual day to day business with gay abandon (can I still use that expression) are a major part of the problem - not that it's their fault if they don't know they have it... and so we go round in circles!
And, no, it's not the figures that are scaring the old folk to death, Covid has done quite a good job of that.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
So what are you trying to say, if someone was admitted to hospital, for say a broken leg but it was then discovered they had Covid, that the Covid part should be ignored and they should just be treated as a fracture patient, or just leave them out of the Covid stats as that wasn't what they were admitted for?
They shouldn’t go down as a covid admission - that’s common sense.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
What, so if someone, as in my instance presented with a broken leg, which could be mended and sent on their way, but then it was discovered they had Covid, which went on to kill them, you would not count them as a Covid patient? What, they died of a broken leg?
Would you apply the same maxim if someone turned up at hospital for a routine appointment and was then discovered to have I don't know, let's say cancer... not a cancer patient, obviously!
The data collection has been shit from day one, don't make it any more difficult...
Edit - Ah, just re reading your post it's the word admission you clearly object to! As I said, let's not make the figures anymore difficult to interpret.
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Why would you register something that you haven’t been taken to hospital with?
Why would you then automatically die if you had covid
You could be in hospital over night with something completely unrelated and be a covid figure - how in any way does that make any sense
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,015
i dont think they have. the article goes back and forth between admissions with covid and people diagnosed while in hospital, indicating they are recorded separatly (as expected)
i think i see the point... its not like that. someone can be admitted for covid, someone can be admitted for a broken leg then found to have covid. they will both be admissions with covid, which is correct.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
I wasn't suggesting for one minute that everyone who goes to hospital with Covid dies, just trying to demonstrate in a ham fisted way that you can't bend the stats to fit your own agenda.
I fall off my motorbike and break my leg. Get to hospital and am found to have Covid, what am I recorded, admitted and treated for?
We are counting patients WITH Covid, whatever they were admitted for.
As I tried to demonstrate, rather clumsily, if someone was admitted to hospital for a routine condition, but was then found to have Covid or as in the article, contracted Covid while in hospital, then why wouldn't they be counted a Covid patient, granted not a Covid admission.
Maybe it's a game of rock, paper, scissors and you decide which conditions beat others!
Rock Paper Scissors seems a sensible option at this point lol
The Wizard
Well-known member
- Jul 2, 2009
- 18,399
I’d imagine COVID control in hospital is exceptionally difficult, I remember during the ‘first wave’ that they did antibodies tests at hospitals that had outbreaks and I think a high % of the doctors and nurses had the antibodies, many of whom didn’t know they had it. It would be interesting to know how many of the admissions are people who were actually admitted with COVID as the primary reason, but I can’t find a breakdown of those numbers anywhere in the ONS COVID numbers. Hopefully hospital spread isn’t as bad now we have sufficient PPE and experience.
As an aside point about university students/16-25 year olds, 70000 students in the USA have returned positive tests with only 3 requiring hospital treatment and zero deaths.
https://twitter.com/andrewbostom/status/1313162488955973634
As an aside point about university students/16-25 year olds, 70000 students in the USA have returned positive tests with only 3 requiring hospital treatment and zero deaths.
https://twitter.com/andrewbostom/status/1313162488955973634
Even if you do take away the people who go into hospital for something non-Covid related from the stats, I would wager there are far more people who have had it and never gone near or hospital or in any cases not made the authorities aware.
Bearing in mind they are essentially monitoring 60 million people it is never going to be an exact science but does allow the monitoring of trends.
Bearing in mind they are essentially monitoring 60 million people it is never going to be an exact science but does allow the monitoring of trends.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
Your aside isn't particularly surprising, as the incidence of deaths in under 40s is very small if they have no pre existing conditions...
Unfortunately it's not just about them, it's about the people they come into contact with, who don't fall into the young and fit category! They are the ones who will suffer from outbreaks in education.
It must be a worry for any more "senior" teacher at uni or school for that matter. I am not sure they saw the role of teaching as a life and death choice, like some who work in health...
The Wizard
Well-known member
- Jul 2, 2009
- 18,399
I know someone who tutors at sussex university, they don’t come into contact with their students. Same as school teachers, they keep contact to an absolute minimum. Teachers generally have a true passion for teaching and so I doubt very much they see it as a life and death choice, I think that’s a far too over dramatic way of looking at it.
Either way, schools and universities should remain open in ALL circumstances, it’s beyond damaging to children not having school, this crisis is damaging enough of their futures as it is.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
The Wizard
Well-known member
- Jul 2, 2009
- 18,399
People still quoting sage 
I’d sooner quote a box of sage an onion for advice on what we should do.
The situation in northern England is getting bad, it’s intriguing to me how London as of yet, despite increasing slowly, is nowhere near the same rate of certain northern areas. There’s some discussion that the virus didn’t properly take hold in the north of England before the first lockdown and so there is much less immunity up there than in London. I still believe long term immunity exists, not through antibodies but T-cells and this kind of thing only increases that belief.
I’d sooner quote a box of sage an onion for advice on what we should do.The situation in northern England is getting bad, it’s intriguing to me how London as of yet, despite increasing slowly, is nowhere near the same rate of certain northern areas. There’s some discussion that the virus didn’t properly take hold in the north of England before the first lockdown and so there is much less immunity up there than in London. I still believe long term immunity exists, not through antibodies but T-cells and this kind of thing only increases that belief.