Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[nicko31]

Restaurants praised it as a business saver. Filling normally dead days.

Yes they did praise for Rishie dishie scheme and I'm sure the Tories focus grouped it too in a red wall seat

The point I'm making is business was brisk August anyway with a mass staycation, the bonus of outdoor dining (its summer) plus there was only 5% VAT as a sweetener

The £600m would have been better spent from now to help locked down areas with closed premises to get through the winter.

Assistance should be targeted in areas and industries that need it, it ain't rocket science

 

[beorhthelm]

Assistance should be targeted in areas and industries that need it, it ain't rocket science

it did target an industry that needed it. you just think it should target it differently, many wouldnt have made it to winter without assistance, and theres another few dozen opinions how and where a pot of money could be best employed. its more complex than rocket science, tweaking and balancing 100s of variables over months and years.

 

[loz]

Have you got a source for this, can't seem to find anything.

Bearing in mind you incorrectly accused me of misinforming people I would be interested to see this.

WHO are now estimating that 760 million have been exposed to the virus globally.

Based on the 1 million odd reported to have died globally from Covid 19 (admittingly this is likely to be undercounted) this would give a fatality rate in the region of 0.13%.

 

[darkwolf666]

i think you are both right in your own way .....is it really correct in any way to lock down the entire community..in order to protect 5% of the population for the sake of argument ?? the measures that the govt is coming up with now would have been unfathomable a year ago but because there is a particularly nasty flu bug around
they are grinding the country to a halt and depriving people of their liberty .....this can not end well , whichever way it goes.

For the most part I agree with you. My wife and I have taken the decision to shield long past the August 1st deadline. At present there appears to be a reasonable understanding of our position from authority, i.e. education, health and benefits.

However I am sure this stance will change over time and people with genuine concerns will be told to "get on with it" - benefits will be blocked and assistance removed.

As a basic example, during lockdown and beyond, the hospital where my wife goes for her cancer treatment removed car parking charges. We went on Wednesday for her ore chemo Covid test and bloods and ko and behold the charges are back.

It may seem a small thing and yes balance the books blah blah blah, but it's the thin end of the wedge and a sign of things to come...

Protect the vulnerable, more like forget they even exist!

I think there would be a lot of vulnerable people who would be happy to carry on shielding, with the right support, financially, emotionally and mentally!

People just keep trotting out "protect the vulnerable" without really understanding how!

 

[Weststander]

Yes they did praise for Rishie dishie scheme and I'm sure the Tories focus grouped it too in a red wall seat

The point I'm making is business was brisk August anyway with a mass staycation, the bonus of outdoor dining (its summer) plus there was only 5% VAT as a sweetener

The £600m would have been better spent from now to help locked down areas with closed premises to get through the winter.

Assistance should be targeted in areas and industries that need it, it ain't rocket science

When it was announced and got going, food outlets were falling over themselves to commend the measure on eg R5. That said it gave a very welcome cash flow boost, especially on otherwise quiet days, augmented by customers spending more than the deal e.g. on drinks.

Looks like we won't agree on that.

I'd agree with you that similar measure would be welcome now.

Except that we now have the spanner in the works of the Second CV19 Wave. Governments, but not quite yet in England, seem to be discouraging hospitality.

 

[sydney]

For the most part I agree with you. My wife and I have taken the decision to shield long past the August 1st deadline. At present there appears to be a reasonable understanding of our position from authority, i.e. education, health and benefits.

However I am sure this stance will change over time and people with genuine concerns will be told to "get on with it" - benefits will be blocked and assistance removed.

As a basic example, during lockdown and beyond, the hospital where my wife goes for her cancer treatment removed car parking charges. We went on Wednesday for her ore chemo Covid test and bloods and ko and behold the charges are back.

It may seem a small thing and yes balance the books blah blah blah, but it's the thin end of the wedge and a sign of things to come...

Protect the vulnerable, more like forget they even exist!

I think there would be a lot of vulnerable people who would be happy to carry on shielding, with the right support, financially, emotionally and mentally!

People just keep trotting out "protect the vulnerable" without really understanding how!

well i would agree that resuming charging for hospital parking is mercenary .....but then again it always has been , i've been through all that bollocks and it really is one thing after another "open wallet surgery" we call it here ....it sucks and it always has done , i wish your wife and you all the best.

 

[darkwolf666]

well i would agree that resuming charging for hospital parking is mercenary .....but then again it always has been , i've been through all that bollocks and it really is one thing after another "open wallet surgery" we call it here ....it sucks and it always has done , i wish your wife and you all the best.

Thank you!

 

[middletoenail]

Where exactly have I said I’m an anti-vaxxer? I think once on this thread I’ve said I would opt against having a COVID vaccine in the first 6 months of development, perhaps down the line I would have it, but a rushed vaccine is not something I personally would choose to have as a very healthy person in my 20’s, besides, from the murmurings if there is a vaccine it will only be given to a certain % of the population anyway. Bit of a strange thing to add on the end of your post given I’ve never said anything about being an anti vaxxer.

At this present time, the vaccine doesn’t exist and even top senior scientists say that its effectiveness is still unknown and until later phase large scale trials are complete and results correlated, pinning hopes on it being our saviour with no back up plans or other ways out is not a route I agree with Time will tell which one of us on here is correct, but my hunch is, if there is a vaccine it won’t be until at least mid 2021, by which point this country will be the bare bones of the old normal.

Kicking COVID down the road as you put it, is not only kicking COVID down the road, it’s kicking all the other problems down the road that I listed earlier. We will see once all is said and done, the true cost of this ‘way out’ the government have chosen.

You're potentially part of the problem.

I was listening to a discussion on vaccines in a webinar this morning, one of the key epidemiolists in Australia was explaining that if the vaccine is 60% effective, and 100% of people took it, that would get to herd immunity. But, he then said, since a shed load of idiots would not take it (my words), it would probably need to be at least 80% effective to work, and that the current vaccines are having difficulty getting up to that level. Not good news.

 

[pb21]

WHO are now estimating that 760 million have been exposed to the virus globally.

Based on the 1 million odd reported to have died globally from Covid 19 (admittingly this is likely to be undercounted) this would give a fatality rate in the region of 0.13%.

Interesting. However, are the WHO estimating the IFR as 0.13%, or is that what is being inferred from them believing 760 million may have been exposed to the virus and the number of confirmed Covid-19 deaths?

Have the WHO also estimated how many may have died from the virus, rather than confirmed cases?

If the WHO (and presumably others) believe the IFR to be 0.13% then that would change the situation quite significantly.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Where exactly have I said I’m an anti-vaxxer? I think once on this thread I’ve said I would opt against having a COVID vaccine in the first 6 months of development, perhaps down the line I would have it, but a rushed vaccine is not something I personally would choose to have as a very healthy person in my 20’s

Why not? Vaccines are by their very nature a very small dose of something to produce antibodies. In the rare event there is a side effect it's usually a rash or a slight temperature. It's most likely that the worse that will happen is that it might not work. So why would you wait 6 months? As a fit very healthy person in your 20s, you should be at the front of the queue for testing!

 

[loz]

Interesting. However, are the WHO estimating the IFR as 0.13%, or is that what is being inferred from them believing 760 million may have been exposed to the virus and the number of confirmed Covid-19 deaths?

Have the WHO also estimated how many may have died from the virus, rather than confirmed cases?

If the WHO (and presumably others) believe the IFR to be 0.13% then that would change the situation quite significantly.

I would have thought both figures given are an educated finger in the air type estimate, but I suppose its the same with any pandemic or mass illness.

 

[pb21]

I would have thought both figures given are an educated finger in the air type estimate, but I suppose its the same with any pandemic or mass illness.

Something isn't right with these numbers!

An IFR of 0.13% would indicate ~33 million people have bee infected in the UK (based on 42,500 official deaths), i.e. 50% of the population, whereas its recently been found to be ~8%.

It would also indicate ~50% of the US population has been infected etc.

 

[loz]

Something isn't right with these numbers!

An IFR of 0.13% would indicate ~33 million people have bee infected in the UK (based on 42,500 official deaths), i.e. 50% of the population, whereas its recently been found to be ~8%.

It would also indicate ~50% of the US population has been infected etc.

Not my figures BTW.

But some countries have high infection rates and low death numbers and some others the opposite...but looking at the figures ( again not mine) survival rate is about 99.75 or something like that.

 

[Yoda]

Something isn't right with these numbers!

An IFR of 0.13% would indicate ~33 million people have bee infected in the UK (based on 42,500 official deaths), i.e. 50% of the population, whereas its recently been found to be ~8%.

It would also indicate ~50% of the US population has been infected etc.

The ONS last month estimated the current IFR for the UK is 0.3%, this was down on the previous month from 0.56% and way down on the massively incorrect estimate of 8-10% at the start of this pandemic

 

[The Wizard]

711 more people died at home last week than the 5 year average. Shocking, someone in government needs to explain this.

 

[darkwolf666]

Clearly I can't explain the high number of home deaths, although I have asked the question before, what is the cause of death of these home deaths? What is killing all these people at home extra to normal? As far as I am aware hospitals are accepting patients and have been for a number of months, so why these excess home deaths still?

As for deaths in care homes being below average, could that be because so many of the old dears were killed off prematurely by Covid and we've now got a lag as there's less oldies to kill off...

 

[Albion Dan]

Why not? Vaccines are by their very nature a very small dose of something to produce antibodies. In the rare event there is a side effect it's usually a rash or a slight temperature. It's most likely that the worse that will happen is that it might not work. So why would you wait 6 months? As a fit very healthy person in your 20s, you should be at the front of the queue for testing!

$74 MILLION has been paid out in the UK to people who have been significantly damaged by taking vaccines since 1978. These are vaccines that have gone through YEARS of testing. This has been rushed through within a year.

https://fullfact.org/online/vaccine-damage-fund/

 

[Poojah]

$74 MILLION has been paid out in the UK to people who have been significantly damaged by taking vaccines since 1978. These are vaccines that have gone through YEARS of testing. This has been rushed through within a year.

https://fullfact.org/online/vaccine-damage-fund/

I'm genuinely not trying to be incendiary here, but I find that when people (and tabloid newspapers) capitalise words in a statement like that it is because the point being made doesn't really stand up without emphasis.

The link you provided states that between 1978 and 2017, there were 936 successful vaccine damage claims. That's a period of 39 years. Now, I don't have any complete vaccination statistics to hand, but last year there were 14 million flu vaccinations alone. If you add the number of newborns and school age children receiving basic vaccines to that, on top of people who need them for exotic holidays etc. I think we're still in fairly conservative territory to suggest there must be no fewer than 25 million vaccinations taking place in the UK each year.

Even if we lower that to an average of 20 million to account for a lower population as far back as 1978, that's 780 million vaccinations in total. So 936 people being harmed (perhaps some seriously judging by the average payout value) out of 780 million vaccinations suggests a chance of something going wrong of 0.0001%, which as far as my understanding goes is much better than actually contracting coronavirus (or flu for that matter) in the community.

If anything, your post concerning the safety of vaccination programs is incredibly reassuring.

 

[daveinplzen]

Going tits up here. New restrictions and if things don't improve in 2 weeks, shutting everything down, and closing border again.

 

[Albion Dan]

My point is that everyone assumes vaccines are completely safe. They aren't completely safe and these have been thoroughly tested over years before being used.

Lets look at the States where they have paid out $4 Billion to over 6000 people since 1989.

I accept its rare but it happens.