[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

[Herr Tubthumper]

The only fool-proof way is to have a match-day ticket pick up point. I appreciate Barber did this for England fans but I doubt this is workable in the league.

 

[el punal]

I think what is more worrying than the 'no shows' are those fans that reap the rewards of additional loyalty points, and to then purchase tickets with the sole intention of selling them on for exorbitantly inflated prices just to make a fast buck - profiteering at it's worse. So those of you who guilty and take advantage of less fortunate Albion fans - shame on you, and may you rot in hell.

 

[Springal]

For some reason my loyalty points have been taken off from the game yesterday, went from 220 this morning to 210 now, I did go to the game. Has this happened to anyone else?

Did you go and sit in your seat?

 

[Nixonator]

For some reason my loyalty points have been taken off from the game yesterday, went from 220 this morning to 210 now, I did go to the game. Has this happened to anyone else?

We can only hope.

It's a kick in the teeth for those that did attend, but I would hope they see that every one person that did turn up, another one prevented someone else from being there and that is a real problem for cheap cup games.

I fall into the category of 'would have been there if availability' so minus the cost and time to travel I feel similarly aggrieved.

 

[Bry Nylon]

I think the club should employ one of those court artists who do sketches of defendants during trials for broadcast on the BBC news.

They could do a sketch of the away crowd during the game and then this could be matched back to a photo-database of ticket purchasers. Anybody who has purchased a ticket but does NOT appear in the sketch isn't awarded the relevant Loyalty Points. Simple AND effective.

 

[portlock seagull]

Have to say I did consider buying and not going but a) too many already ahead in the queue obviously did likewise I.e. there's not just a monopoly on being able to get away tickets, there's a monopoly on being able to abuse the system of getting away tickets too!! b) I didn't think it's in the spirit of things and shame on you if you're someone who evidently the club can't trust - congrats, you won your race to the bottom.

It's a Bit like joining motorway lane closure queues. Plenty of selfish ********s continue to pass miles of people, inc me, patiently waiting knowing full well they're taking the pee. I just don't like people that behave that way and I'm not going to join em. Because if we all did that....!

 

[Easy 10]

This is just thinking aloud rather than making any demands - but logically, what is the rationale behind awarding extra 'loyalty' points for a small allocation that could have sold out many times over? Shouldn't you just be pleased to have got a ticket? And isn't awarding additional loyalty points in these circumstances just a) inviting abuse, and b) perpetuating some kind of monopoly going forward?

Agreed.

Offering up 10 loyalty points for a £10 ticket was almost an invitation to abuse, as indeed its now turned out. I'd be alarmed if the club were in any way surprised by this outcome. Its not hindsight, plenty on here were predicting exactly how this would play out, for weeks. And so it duly did.

 

[Greavsey]

They can't change it retrospectively, and no-one is expecting them to do so.

But to penalise those bought a ticket with no intention of going is within the bounds of acceptability. Even if a no-show is for a 'legitimate' reason, I still feel it's fair enough to not credit them with those loyalty points. It's too bad, but if you can't go, you can't go.

There are many examples of non-refundable ticket purchases. If you can't get your train for which you've bought a pre-booked ticket for reasons which are your own, you can't expect a refund.

OK. I guess I was more trying to infer that the club could take the moral high ground and not punish for this offence (and frankly avoid the bad PR, and the ensuing bad blood with fans who lose the loyalty points), but they should definitely ensure it's more difficult to manipulate the situation in the future.

They now have at least until the 3rd round FA Cup tickets go on sale to work out what the solution is.

 

[portlock seagull]

I think the club should employ one of those court artists who do sketches of defendants during trials for broadcast on the BBC news.

They could do a sketch of the away crowd during the game and then this could be matched back to a photo-database of ticket purchasers. Anybody who has purchased a ticket but does NOT appear in the sketch isn't awarded the relevant Loyalty Points. Simple AND effective.

Post of the day! Genuienly LOL-ed "Simple AND effective..."!! Very good, Sir.

 

[Stat Brother]

Is there anything blatantly obvious that has happened recently, for which the club hasn't been surprised about?

Bloom and Barber eating breakfast:-

 

[Goldstone1976]

The only fool-proof way is to have a match-day ticket pick up point. I appreciate Barber did this for England fans but I doubt this is workable in the league.

For it to be foolproof, they'd have to insist on photo id before giving you the ticket too (though how they'd work it for purchases made legitimately for friends and family - like was done for me last night and like how I've done for a mate for WHU, I'm not sure).

It will be interesting to see whether they will want to make the new system as foolproof as possible, or whether they want to tighten it up a bit. Also interesting will be the extent to which they are prepared to inconvenience/piss off fans who have done/are doing nothing wrong.

 

[soistes]

Thinking aloud here.

I'm wondering whether the club should wait and see whether whole thing really is such a big issue over a number of matches, and not construct some expensive and complicated new system (all of the options for which, as Bozza's note points out, risk potential unwanted consequences for one 'innocent' group or another), to deal with a problem which may really apply only to this particular match.

As I understand it, there weren't a lot of no shows at Leicester, Watford or Bournemouth (league), and most of the seat gaps observable at those three were compensated for by people elsewhere standing in the aisles etc. This suggests there wasn't a widespread practice of 'points harvesting' going on for these matches, so there may well not be at other away league matches later in the season. So perhaps Bournemouth (cup) was a one-off, influenced by the fact that it wasn't a popular trip on a Tuesday night (especially with the likelihood of extra time and a late finish), four days after most people who go regularly to away matches had made the same trip - also maybe there were a fair number of people, genuine fans, who initially bought tickets for both, but influenced by the disappointment of Friday, the reminder of what a crap journey it is and the likelihood of the Albion putting out a weak team, decided on balance not to go. I went on Friday, and I didn't have a ticket for Tuesday, but if I'd had one, I might well have decided, after Friday, that I didn't fancy another evening in Boscombe so quickly after the first one. Would that make me a fraud or whatever worse terms all those people are being called today on NSC, given that I don't actually need the points (I've got enough for all the games so far, including Arsenal and West Ham) and given that I've been to all the away league games and intend to go to the future ones I can get tickets for?

I'm not saying that none of the no-shows were cynical points harvesters - maybe some were, but the stats for the other games suggests that they haven't being doing it at those games, and the extra benefit they've got from Bournemouth on Tuesday is pretty marginal (was it 10 points?). So they are either: 'legit' fans for all the other matches, and have blagged an extra 10 (and it'll be a small minority for whom that 10 is crucial to take them over a points threshold), so I don't hugely begrudge them the extra 10; Or, they are different people, who haven't been part of the 'legit' majority who went to Leicester, Watford, Bournemouth (League) etc, in which case the 10 points aren't going to do them much good, because they aren't going to have enough points to be in the eligible groups for the 'desirable' away matches anyway.

So I think the club would do better to a) put out a strong warning that if this continues they'll crack down; and b) wait and see if it does continue (i.e. we start getting other away matches with a lot more tickets sold than attendees), before cracking down.

 

[Shorehamkid]

I say this as someone who went to both... but if they wipe everyone's points for last nights game are they going to do the same for Barnet where there were many more than last nights 600 no shows?

 

[The Large One]

OK. I guess I was more trying to infer that the club could take the moral high ground and not punish for this offence (and frankly avoid the bad PR, and the ensuing bad blood with fans who lose the loyalty points), but they should definitely ensure it's more difficult to manipulate the situation in the future.

What's evident is that some / many fans have decided to abuse the system by not entering into the spirit, and now the club has clear up the mess. I think the club wanted to trust the fans not to behave, but some can't help themselves.

No system is perfect - at least not without having more money and resources being thrown at it.

They now have at least until the 3rd round FA Cup tickets go on sale to work out what the solution is.

Not necessarily. Tottenham are only offering 3,000 tickets at Wembley. We could easily take 15,000. Chelsea on Boxing Day might well hit the same problem.

 

[Hamilton]

Those options imply that the club do know whether fans attend or not.

If it's an electronic turnstile then there's no reason why that data can't be collected.

I'd say that 2 loyalty points are awarded for purchase and a further 8 are awarded on attendance where clubs are able to collect that data.

 

[Bozza]

Here's an idea, which might be so simple its stupid.

Why not have a few stewards with boxes stand outside the exits after the game, and collect up all the used ticket stubs ? Just walk past and chuck your used ticket stub in the box. The used stubs then get shipped back to BHAFC HQ, where some minions go through them and update the loyalty points accordingly.

Do-able ?

Someone goes through 3,000 tickets manually. And you'll want that done before tomorrow morning when the tickets for Another Big Club FC away day go on sale too, presumably? Very manual and very expensive to operate.

However, I am in favour of this proposal and will happily transport tickets for non-attendees in Sussex to the away game and deposit them into a box. A fiver per ticket. Anyone?

 

[studio150]

Here's an idea, which might be so simple its stupid.

Why not have a few stewards with boxes stand outside the exits after the game, and collect up all the used ticket stubs ? Just walk past and chuck your used ticket stub in the box. The used stubs then get shipped back to BHAFC HQ, where some minions go through them and update the loyalty points accordingly.

Do-able ?

Sounds sensible, but if you think about beating the system this is not really an option.

Take last night as an example, you buy a ticket but have no intention of going, so not wanting to miss out on the points, you give your ticket to a mate who is going anyway, and when he leaves the ground, he throws 2 tickets into the bin.

There is then the issue, for anyone who likes to collect their tickets to games they have been to. This option stops them doing this.


Maybe an option when cheap tickets are available is only award a few points, say under 5. This would hopefully reduce the abuse, and the fans that go to the game, are probably more interested in seeing the game than worrying about bumping their points up.

Just ( now going into cliche mode) throwing it out there, looking for a blue skies approach, running it up the flag pole, etc. Maybe keep at points allocation, but where there is a massive number of no shows (excluding say heavy snow in and around Brighton so difficult to get up North, the points allocation to individual accounts is held back until the end of the season, thereby reducing the points totals for big games, and then when added they are only worth half on the carry over.

A really difficult position for the club, but at least Paul Barbers programme article should be interesting on Sunday if he addresses this issue then,

Name and shame with a rogues gallery in the programme would be my option

 

[portlock seagull]

Here's an idea...pay on the day! First turn up get in. Old skool but effective on basis Die Hards typically prepared to get there early.

 

[Jakeg]

Did you go and sit in your seat?

No, sat with a few friends a couple of rows behind

 

[Is it PotG?]

Here's an idea...pay on the day! First turn up get in. Old skool but effective on basis Die Hards typically prepared to get there early.

Be a bit of a nause if you haven't missed a match for 159 years yet get delayed by an overturned bread lorry on the M1 and miss out.