[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

[Munchkin]

Bournemouth scan every ticket on the turnstile. They know exactly who attended and who didn't last night.

I'm pretty sure the club will be requesting the information on the no shows and deal with them in the appropriate manner.

 

[Ernest]

Need to be careful about an over-reaction here and using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Can't see there will be many games at all where this happens (possibly no more this season except an unattractive FA Cup away tie oop North perhaps).

Put it down to experience, and for similar future games (ie cheap, unattractive ones) don't offer any points at all?

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Sounds like one of those who bought a ticket and didn't GO

 

[Easy 10]

How would you stop Herbert from going round again and dropping another ticket?

Hmm - perhaps you get a stamp on your hand on entry (say in white), which is then "cancelled" (blue?) when you deposit the stub?

Nope - 2 hands = 2 ticket possibilities. Need something that is visible and that you only have one of - got it - a stamp placed on the forehead should do it. If you've already had your head stamp "cancelled", you can't deposit another stub.

Simple - oh, and effective.

Nothing is going to be completely foolproof, there's always some shitstain who will play the system. But if anyone noticed some urchin making repeat trips round the stewards to drop off multiple tickets after the game, then I'd hope they'd (a) be pointed out to said stewards and (b) receive a damn good kicking for his trouble from at least half a dozen fans.

 

[dazzer6666]

Sounds like one of those who bought a ticket and didn't GO

Haha, no because I am working in Vancouver this week. DIDN'T buy a ticket for last night but DID go on Friday.

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[ATFC Seagull]

Realistically how many people genuinely bought a ticket in good faith and then had a last-minute reason not to go? I'm sure there are some but we are talking a very small number. I think *IF* they can work out accurately who did and didn't attend last night, then people lose points. They are able to make representations to the club in writing (which may require evidence) if they feel they fall into this category. I would imagine most of the £10-10 points brigade would not do this. I also reckon a lot of those for whom this was the case would be regular-ish away attenders who probably have enough points to not be that fussed. It'd be a lot of work for the club but this really is their **** up and it would repair a lot of damage done and hard feelings.

One problem using data from Bournemouth's turnstiles is if people have bought tickets as a group and then not accurately shared them out to the right people, some of whom didn't come. I have to say in the past me and my mates never gave each person their exact seat number, although we've started to do so this year in case of inspection etc.

 

[Bozza]

Bournemouth scan every ticket on the turnstile. They know exactly who attended and who didn't last night.

I'm pretty sure the club will be requesting the information on the no shows and deal with them in the appropriate manner.

I admire your "can't be arsed to read the opening post" approach.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Are they going to cut their goolies off?

[yt]p6aQC-1-GF4[/yt]

Huge scullery! Hahahhahahahhaa

 

[BlueSeagull]

I've had some correspondence with the club regarding last night's attendance at Bournemouth which, in case there is anyone unaware, saw 652 Albion fans attend when an allocation of 1,325 tickets had fully sold out.

It's covered in various threads:

- Looking forward to seeing over 1,000 fans at Bournemouth in the Carabao Cup!
- Bournemouth away tomorrow
- Bournemouth Cup game - did you go, or did you "go"?

I'm going to provide a précis of those conversations here, rather than continuing to fragment the discussion across several threads. Please note the actual words are my own:

The club cannot force people to attend matches when they have bought a ticket, particularly as there will always be legitimate reasons for “no shows”. However, the club are shocked at what appears to be widespread abuse of the loyalty point system last night at Bournemouth. This is particularly disappointing given the club worked hard to keep ticket prices down, yet these lower ticket prices seem to have instigated the abuse.

The club are currently reviewing data supplied to them by Bournemouth to gain a better understanding of the abuse and will be making some changes to the current system and to the governing terms and conditions. There is a wide variety of entry systems deployed by clubs which means it may not always be possible to do the same for all games, but requests will be made which is likely to be a costly exercise for the club. The club was aware there was a risk of abuse, but hoped that most fans would operate within the spirit of the scheme.

Possible options specific to last night include:

- doing nothing (not really considered an option)
- disqualifying the loyalty points from those supporters who didn’t attend last night’s game (however would disadvantage those fans who had a genuine reason for not attending), -
- disqualifying the loyalty points from all tickets sold for last might’s game (this would disadvantage those that did attend but would protecting the spirit of the system as far as possible)
- increasing the loyalty points awarded for those fans that did attend (partially neutralising the benefit gained by those that abused the system. However this would mean further impacting on those that were unable to buy tickets in the first place).

In the longer term, options include:

- changing to terms and conditions regarding the award and revocation of loyalty points
- considering mandatory ticket collections at venues close to the stadium we are visiting to minimise any further abuse of the system, and any associated mis-use of away match tickets.
- deploying club staff and scanners pre-away turnstiles to ensure that only those tickets used accrue the loyalty points promised or are being used by the supporters to whom they have been issued.

The club expect to make a statement on how they intend to move forward in the next day or so.

Thanks for this Bozza, I have posted this in the Brighton Banter Book on Facebook (credited you) as lots in there are discussing it. I'm glad someone has contacted the club, I was going to ask if anyone in there had spoken to them, but no need now, as this covers everything, thank you.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Fewer points for cheap tickets and it stops being a problem (without the need for any of these costly, time-consuming and inconvenient measures).

Exactly. And fewer points for games that don't get much passed the first tranche of sales. I don't really see that anyone needs loyalty points for the games everyone is desperate to get to that don't get passed the first 2 thresholds. The loyalty points you already have secure your ticket, you don't need to benefit from further loyalty points for that game. Loyalty points for games that are less in demand as those are the ones that sort out the wheat from the chaff in terms of loyalty, not Arsenal, Chelsea or West Ham away.

 

[Dave the OAP]

How many of the current crop of albion fans would have attended a reserve game against Charlton Athletic to get a ticket for a cup game against Derby County?

No, instead they spend their hard earned money buying tickets for a game that actually mattered to a lot of people just so they could get points to be able to go to the glamour ties in this stupid division and then not actually go, so pissing off a lot of fans who actually wanted to go and support the team.

So it has come to this with our fan base!

Welcome to the new world.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Its fair and its right and in line with all other clubs it will continue, if we go down-you and all the other moaners have a chance to go to all away games ----every single one of them like I and many others have including (the expensive mid week away-in terms of cash and time off work) and then assuming we come back up you will be in pole position.
This is life -you put the effort in you get the rewards plain and simple.
Having said that I was surprised how empty it was last night -having been on Friday also .
I expect the club will release a statement about this but will be unable to take action this time due to having not released a statement prior to the event .
looking at this logically im not sure other than hand scanning at the gate what they can do, collecting tickets at the away ground is always stressful even if its our club staff manning it , you couldn't expect the home club to sort our problem out .
I think along with shirtgate scandal the club has been caught out as £10 is cheap for ten points considering the amount of whinging by jcl's and others who clearly couldn't or couldn't be bothered to go to Barnsley,Huddersfield, Rotherham etc .
On other posts I have mentioned due to work and young family commitments I couldn't get a ticket for the last game at the goldstone due to not having been that season--------I stood outside in the rain !
ps while your wringing your hands over this all of you did you actually have the money as both Bournemouth games cost me personally 3 days off work and approx. £40 in tickets, £40 in trains (travelling as a group save )otherwise its £120 for both events , £115 in hotels and probably another £120 in spending money.
Before any one says im lucky I don't have the holiday time or money for foreign holidays-just for the Albion --sad innit

You're not the first person to write on here that the moaners are jcl's who won't go to away games if we go down - so can I point out that lots of us who are moaning are people who did indeed go to Barnsley and Huddersfield and others, but not having a season-ticket means all of a sudden we can't get to away games. As you well know there are lots and lots of exiles who enjoy away games and to call us glory-hunting jcls is simply insulting.

So please reset your thinking, I've been to Rochdale four times and whilst that was nice and easy to get a ticket I have no desire to go back to Rochdale. however if I can never get to see Brighton away I might start really pining for the lower leagues once more. Bournemouth in the league cup looked like one of the few games that we non-sth holders might be able to get tickets for, and for there to be 700 no-shows is a real kick in the teeth.

 

[Titanic]

Exactly. And fewer points for games that don't get much passed the first tranche of sales. I don't really see that anyone needs loyalty points for the games everyone is desperate to get to that don't get passed the first 2 thresholds. The loyalty points you already have secure your ticket, you don't need to benefit from further loyalty points for that game. Loyalty points for games that are less in demand as those are the ones that sort out the wheat from the chaff in terms of loyalty, not Arsenal, Chelsea or West Ham away.

and it provides a good way for fans with fewer points to catch up by attending the less popular away games.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Nothing is going to be completely foolproof, there's always some shitstain who will play the system. But if anyone noticed some urchin making repeat trips round the stewards to drop off multiple tickets after the game, then I'd hope they'd (a) be pointed out to said stewards and (b) receive a damn good kicking for his trouble from at least half a dozen fans.

You kind of make my point for me. If we accept that nothing is foolproof (except handing the tickets out by hand to the purchaser at the away ground), then the question becomes just what is the balance between relative foolproof-ness, fan anger/irritation, and increased club admin?

I don't profess to know the answer - except, unless they do go the full hog, there will always be ways to game the system and always be people prepared to do so.

 

[pb21]

Just void the points of those who didn't attend, which seems an option in this instance.

Possibly harsh on those who were planning on going but for whatever reason couldn't, but arguably not as these are 'loyalty' points, i.e supporting the team, not points for just being able to buy a ticket.

 

[Bold Seagull]

and it provides a good way for fans with fewer points to catch up by attending the less popular away games.

We are in complete agreement.

 

[Springal]

Genuine question. Again. Why is this only a problem for us? Why don't any other club in the PL have this kind of problem?

Is it just because we are new? Our system looks similar to many others.

 

[Titanic]

You kind of make my point for me. If we accept that nothing is foolproof (except handing the tickets out by hand to the purchaser at the away ground), then the question becomes just what is the balance between relative foolproof-ness, fan anger/irritation, and increased club admin?

I don't profess to know the answer - except, unless they do go the full hog, there will always be ways to game the system and always be people prepared to do so.

What is wrong with fewer points for cheap tickets (and they already have fewer for what are expected to be very popular away games)?

 

[afcb]

Genuine question. Again. Why is this only a problem for us? Why don't any other club in the PL have this kind of problem?

Is it just because we are new? Our system looks similar to many others.

We have an entirely separate points system for cup games..its simply cup points for League Cup and FA cup which includes home and away games. League games are League home and League away points, again separate. One doesn't impact on the other.

It seems to work. The points are only taken over from the previous season then added to those in the current season.

 

[bhanutz]

Genuine question. Again. Why is this only a problem for us? Why don't any other club in the PL have this kind of problem?

Is it just because we are new? Our system looks similar to many others.

It’s because the JCL’S suddenly want to start going to away games this season. Funny how there was no moaning about how many points people were getting per away game last season....

 

[Springal]

It’s because the JCL’S suddenly want to start going to away games this season. Funny how there was no moaning about how many points people were getting per away game last season....

I know that... but I'm talking about o ther clubs