[Albion] Losing Macalister & Caicedo

[Springal]

Tony Bloom's problem is that you cannot keep raising the bar for the targets you set the club whilst simultaneously selling 2 or 3 of your best players every season.

.

but also these high value assets would very likely walk away either 1) reduced, like Bissouma or 2) free like many of Leicester squad

 

[chrisg]

You could easily be the chap behind me yesterday. He constantly slagged off Ayari and Buonanotte. Moaned about us playing it out from the back. In the end, very unlike me I gave him some verbals to shut the f*** up.

Nope. I was sat on my sofa watching.

I’m just being realistic, if someone thinks Moder is our Alexis replacement for August, when the poor guy hasn’t been seen for a month

 

[borat]

Dahoud isn’t our player yet and nobody knows how he will cope in the PL.
Moder out for a year and not been seen in training for a month .
Lallana. Injured half the year.
Ayari. Taken off at half time yesterday as not up to it.
Kozlowski. Not kicked a ball in the PL.

"Ayari not up to it" jeez

 

[tigertim68]

If our best 2 players are going to be sold I hope it happens quickly, then we can all move on , would hate it if it drags all through the summer

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

ManC - a couple of centre midfielders leaving this summer.
Manure - Caicedo’s light years ahead of McTomathug and Casemiro gets injuries/suspensions.
Arsenal - Xhaka’s reportedly returning to Germany and Partey was dreadful in many of the bad recent results. They’ll need more than Rice.

My thinking is along the lines of:

Man city. They already have Rodri as a cdm. Are they going to spend 100m on another one? Especially one that doesn't have the ability on the ball that Rodri has. We know that they don't overspend anymore, they have a value for each player and won't go above it.

Man utd. They have several holes to fill, the most prominent being Striker. Ten Hag appears to really want Kane but Kane won't come cheap. They are also apparently keen on Mount and he is said to have united as his preferred option. Those two will cost a lot. Will utd have, or want to spend 100m on a cdm (as an understudy?!)this summer when they have four more years of casemiro.

Arsenal. I just can't see them spending 200m on Rice and Caicedo leaving them with three cdm's who will all want/expect to play. If they get another midfielder it'll be a more creative/all round player. A Mount or Tielemans(available on a free) for example.

There are a lot of very good midfielders in the world and the vast majority of them will be cheaper than Caicedo. I think if you're going to spend 100m on him it's because you need him as a matter of priority. I'm not sure any of those clubs need him in that sense.

I don't preclude the possibility of one of those clubs buying him I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion as some people think.

 

[Mancgull]

You could easily be the chap behind me yesterday. He constantly slagged off Ayari and Buonanotte. Moaned about us playing it out from the back. In the end, very unlike me I gave him some verbals to shut the f*** up.

Good on you. I hate it when ill informed 'fans' slag off our younger players. Alexis was one of those three years ago.
As for the 'stop messing about at the back, and get it forward' comments, well these just show that certain of our 'fans' haven't yet grasped the De Zerbi' way and that the result of inviting the press has been a record number of chances and goals for the team. Sometimes a bit of well intentioned feedback is what is needed.

 

[jcdenton08]

We all (most of us) knew this was coming though. It is the entire model of our transfer business. Buy low, develop, sell at “peak” price in the market, reinvest portion, repeat. It will always be the same under Bloom and Barber and it’s working extremely well for us.

Highest ever finish, best ever football, beautiful stadium, European football for the first ever time, FA Cup semi final, and several players worth in excess of £70m apiece. We are the envy of practically every owner in the world for how we operate.

So yes, Moises and Ale are both going. And next summer probably a few more of our best performers too, if we continue to hit the heights we have next season.

 

[Zeberdi]

Anyone else finding Roberto’s constant comments that Moises and Alexis deserve to be playing at a higher level a little annoying?

Yes I get that selling players on for a big profit is our model and that we don’t pay anywhere close to quite a few other PL teams, BUT how much of a higher level can they play next season? Liverpool bound Alexis (allegedly) will be playing in exactly the same competitions as us next season, so there are currently only 4 English teams at a higher level than us.

I know RDZ is very open and honest in interviews and long may that continue but I’d rather he‘d stop effectively labelling us a small team in interviews, even if we are

The thing is this is more than semantics- we are a small club not a big one (and consequently have a relatively small team)

This confusion caused by people interchangeably using ‘Big’ Club with a ‘Top ‘ Club is creating a false narrative that we are making excuses for something. Big clubs are those like Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, Citeh, Chelsea and AV with multi-billion investments.

RDZ said we are a ‘small club’ - he has never said we can not be a ‘top club’ also and this season, against all financial advantages we are in the Top 6 but it is obviously harder to compete with Big Clubs within our existing ownership budget and he is only pointing out the logical implications of that.

When you see where we are financially (as in January 23) it makes our achievements this season ( and individual match results against Big Clubs) even more incredible ( not to forget SF of the FA Cup, qualifying for Europe, record breaking valuation of players and loosing a significant chunk of dressing room/admin/ managerial staff.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Good on you. I hate it when ill informed 'fans' slag off our younger players. Alexis was one of those three years ago.
As for the 'stop messing about at the back, and get it forward' comments, well these just show that certain of our 'fans' haven't yet grasped the De Zerbi' way and that the result of inviting the press has been a record number of chances and goals for the team. Sometimes a bit of well intentioned feedback is what is needed.

Trouble is, feedback doesn't penetrate stupid.

 

[Weststander]

My thinking is along the lines of:

Man city. They already have Rodri as a cdm. Are they going to spend 100m on another one? Especially one that doesn't have the ability on the ball that Rodri has. We know that they don't overspend anymore, they have a value for each player and won't go above it.

Man utd. They have several holes to fill, the most prominent being Striker. Ten Hag appears to really want Kane but Kane won't come cheap. They are also apparently keen on Mount and he is said to have united as his preferred option. Those two will cost a lot. Will utd have, or want to spend 100m on a cdm (as an understudy?!)this summer when they have four more years of casemiro.

Arsenal. I just can't see them spending 200m on Rice and Caicedo leaving them with three cdm's who will all want/expect to play. If they get another midfielder it'll be a more creative/all round player. A Mount or Tielemans(available on a free) for example.

There are a lot of very good midfielders in the world and the vast majority of them will be cheaper than Caicedo. I think if you're going to spend 100m on him it's because you need him as a matter of priority. I'm not sure any of those clubs need him in that sense.

I don't preclude the possibility of one of those clubs buying him I just don't think it's a foregone conclusion as some people think.

I’d be interested and delighted if we banked £100m. Has a non attacking centre midfielder ever got anywhere near that?

Arsenal went to £70m. It was rejected not because of the valuation, but TB/RDZ wouldn’t allow them to ruin our mid season dreams.

To me he’s worth it. The buyer’s getting a midfield beast for the next 10 years.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

The thing is this is more than semantics- we are a small club not a big one (and consequently have a relatively small team)

This confusion caused by people interchangeably using ‘Big’ Club with a ‘Top ‘ Club is creating a false narrative that we are making excuses for something. Big clubs are those like Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, Citeh, Chelsea and AV with multi-billion investments.

RDZ said we are a ‘small club’ - he has never said we can not be a ‘top club’ also and this season, against all financial advantages we are in the Top 6 but it is obviously harder to compete with Big Clubs within our existing ownership budget and he is only pointing out the logical implications of that.

When you see where we are financially (as in January 23) it makes our achievements this season ( and individual match results against Big Clubs) even more incredible ( not to forget SF of the FA Cup, qualifying for Europe, record breaking valuation of players and loosing a significant chunk of dressing room/admin/ managerial staff.

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I'm unreasonably pleased to see that Bloom's apparently worth more than the guy who owns Brentford.
Apparently.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Tony Bloom's problem is that you cannot keep raising the bar for the targets you set the club whilst simultaneously selling 2 or 3 of your best players every season.

Furthermore, we're selling those players to the Big 6, thus reducing our chances of European qualification.

When Mac and Moises broke into the side they were international players improving a lower mid table side. This next crop need to break into a top 6 side competing in Europe, so more pressure on them and the coaches.

Although, to be fair, it was RDZ who made the club raise the bar this season. I'm not sure TB expectations will have been raised for next season just yet.

 

[peterward]

We all (most of us) knew this was coming though. It is the entire model of our transfer business. Buy low, develop, sell at “peak” price in the market, reinvest portion, repeat. It will always be the same under Bloom and Barber and it’s working extremely well for us.

Highest ever finish, best ever football, beautiful stadium, European football for the first ever time, FA Cup semi final, and several players worth in excess of £70m apiece. We are the envy of practically every owner in the world for how we operate.

So yes, Moises and Ale are both going. And next summer probably a few more of our best performers too, if we continue to hit the heights we have next season.

we need a new stadium! could sell another 10k if we had ability

The financial model is the right one for a club like ours, we lucked out massively with Potter going and RDZ coming in, the problem is it wont last for ever, sooner or later RDZ will go, sooner or later, when you sell best players you'll get an Ali J and Locadia type slipping through the algorithm.

Trust in Bloom implicitly, but I dont personally think we can keep doing this and sustain PL position as well.

A time will come (like Stains) when it goes a bit pear shaped imho. Though there is no easy answer though for clubs of a relative size as ours, we can only do what we are doing, as if we try and hold players to contracts against their will from the bigger clubs, not only will we lose potential high transfer values, but the cream of South American youth wont come. Mac and Caicedo going is good PR to get the next new stars, it just doesnt help fans aspirations.

Its a bind for sure.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

NSC silly season, there’ll be doom n gloom posts/threads until 1 Sept, ignoring all the quality recruiting

Amongst the usual every day challenges threads to keep us busy such as “Net curtains, do you still have them”

Can’t wait, only 74 days to go

 

[Icy Gull]

The thing is this is more than semantics- we are a small club not a big one (and consequently have a relatively small team)

This confusion caused by people interchangeably using ‘Big’ Club with a ‘Top ‘ Club is creating a false narrative that we are making excuses for something. Big clubs are those like Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, Citeh, Chelsea and AV with multi-billion investments.

RDZ said we are a ‘small club’ - he has never said we can not be a ‘top club’ also and this season, against all financial advantages we are in the Top 6 but it is obviously harder to compete with Big Clubs within our existing ownership budget and he is only pointing out the logical implications of that.

When you see where we are financially (as in January 23) it makes our achievements this season ( and individual match results against Big Clubs) even more incredible ( not to forget SF of the FA Cup, qualifying for Europe, record breaking valuation of players and loosing a significant chunk of dressing room/admin/ managerial staff.

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I totally accept that we are not and never will be a big club, I just don’t like our manager telling the press regularly our players deserve to play for a big club, that’s all

Can’t help thinking with an attitude like that he’ll be out the door as soon as a non basket case big club makes a move.

His choice, players choice, and although I get it, I don’t have to like it

Not sure I have ever heard another manager suggesting his best players need to move on and that he supports it either.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'd say both are off. You can't grant AMac a transfer then refuse Caicedo the same.

Would really get the shits on then.

You can if a sizeable new contract softens the blow for another 12 months including European football, with your mates

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Although, to be fair, it was RDZ who made the club raise the bar this season. I'm not sure TB expectations will have been raised for next season just yet.

I do think that, even aside from extra games in Europe or players that we sell, we have to be understanding that there's a decent chance we're not anywhere near 6th place next season without doing anything worse than we have this season.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I totally accept that we are not and never will be a big club, I just don’t like our manager telling the press regularly our players deserve to play for a big club, that’s all

Can’t help thinking with an attitude like that he’ll be out the door as soon as a non basket case big club makes a move.

His choice, players choice, and although I get it, I don’t have to like it

Not sure I have ever heard another manager suggesting his best players need to move on and that he supports it either.

I don't think it's that he has a different attitude to most other managers in that position, he's just more likely to come out with it.
There's no point thinking his directness is great when it helps push players to perform better or he comes out with interesting things in interviews, but then thinking it's a flaw as soon as he says something we're not comfortable with.

 

[Icy Gull]

I don't think it's that he has a different attitude to most other managers in that position, he's just more likely to come out with it.
There's no point thinking his directness is great when it helps push players to perform better or he comes out with interesting things in interviews, but then thinking it's a flaw as soon as he says something we're not comfortable with.

I know I’m sailing this ship alone, and I get what you’re saying. His pressers are always interesting, I just wish he’d rein in publically supporting the best players leaving

I fear the De Zerbi tenure will end badly because of it….

 

[Weststander]

I don't think it's that he has a different attitude to most other managers in that position, he's just more likely to come out with it.
There's no point thinking his directness is great when it helps push players to perform better or he comes out with interesting things in interviews, but then thinking it's a flaw as soon as he says something we're not comfortable with.

He’s a bit of an open book, I love that.

Better imho than a manager who arrogantly / boringly never reveals anything of interest to fans, instead churned out cliches.