long live the Pint

[The Large One]

Interesting.

Wikipedia says that abortion in Ireland is still illegal. The 1992 ruling after 'Case X' (I remember that case well, there was a lot of debate about it), says that the woman has the right to an abortion, not that abortion is legal, but that the act of an abortion carries with it the charge of malpractice upon the medical practitioner.

So to say that the UK and Ireland have the same abortion laws is not right.

 

[Cian]

Beg to differ but in fact the US and we do not have quite the same measurement system as we do. A US Gallon is actually small than an Imperial Gallon. Also, it's worth noting that cars here have the fuel consumption messured in MPG and not KPG.

Oh yes, I guess we're out of touch because we won't adopt the Euro either.

KPG would be a rather strange hybrid measurement!

 

[crasher]

Still bullshit. Check up on the wording of the various referendums and you'll see that the population here have frequently been offered (and accepted, at times) laws that horrify the Catholic church - including one which removed the churches legal status, one which allowed divorce, and the ones which allowed the current level of abortion.

The state has also enacted laws which have gone contrary to anything a government that was being influenced by a church would do, such as decriminalising homosexuality long before the EU forced certain UK protectorates (Isle of Man) to do so; anti-discrimination laws which went far, far deeper than UK ones did until this year (provision of goods and services, etc)

When you stop living in a little bubble where you imagine that we're run by men in badly fitting black frocks, it would be an idea to come here and see what Ireland post-1973 is actually like.

I do realise Ireland is not all Father Ted. But if you deny that the Church still has powerful influence in Ireland then it is you that is living in a bubble.

 

[Monkster]

Maybe you should Check IFPA....

http://www.ifpa.ie/abortion/hist.html

I believe I will stike with with Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution

Amended as follows: "The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right."

1992 amendment

Travel "Subsection 3 of this section [Article 40.3.3] shall not limit freedom to travel between the State and another state."

 

[Cian]

Interesting.

Wikipedia says that abortion in Ireland is still illegal. The 1992 ruling after 'Case X' (I remember that case well, there was a lot of debate about it), says that the woman has the right to an abortion, not that abortion is legal, but that the act of an abortion carries with it the charge of malpractice upon the medical practitioner.

So to say that the UK and Ireland have the same abortion laws is not right.

Wikipedia is frequently wrong. Since some time in the 1980s (about the time the morning after pill became easily available) it hasn't been illegal for the doctor to perform an abortion, until 1992 it was illegal for the woman to procure it.

Theres been a few more tests cases since, the Attorney General vs. C. and Attorney General vs. D. which further loosened any control the state had over procurement within Ireland. As far as I can recall, Miss C. had her abortion in Ireland; the D Case was entirely over the right of the health boards to restrict the right to travel of a ward of court; it was ruled they couldn't.

 

[Cian]

I do realise Ireland is not all Father Ted. But if you deny that the Church still has powerful influence in Ireland then it is you that is living in a bubble.

I'm the one living here, you're the one watching from afar.

Monkster - statute law is what applies in these cases following X and C, not constitutional law. It doesn't change the fact that it is still virtually impossible to get an abortion in Ireland but its not actually illegal. X was a statute law case and allows abortion when theres a risk to the mothers life. Which is precisely what the UK law allows it under!

 

[Grendel]

Enough of this bollocks about abortion, I'm still waiting for an explanation for this gloriously incomphensible piece of MYOB bullshit:

the pint as a measurement has not been produced since the 1970s in the UK, making it obsolete

Come on, how is a "pint as a measurement" produced?

 

[beorhthelm]

(Grounds for abortion in GB:
...
* Under 28 weeks to avoid injury to the physical or mental health of the woman
)

and thats a pretty vague criteria, the difference being that in the UK you just have to say it'll affect you and the doctor will sign it off.

back to pints. its a point of principle and no, you cant just say pint = 568ml as that isnt an official unit of measurement. why gill had to change to 25ml (still not sure why they caved on that one). otherwise you could just have a sign on the door to your pub saying "our 'pint' is 512ml". anarchy and chaos. pint might be used in Ireland, but it not an officially permitted term.

 

[Monkster]

Miss C (13 yro rape victim) didn't have her abortion in Ireland & thats the point...her case was for the RIGHT to travel abroad to have it & relevent information released. Had she stayed in Ireland, she would have been forced to continue the preganacy, even thought he docs said that she was at risk of taking her own life

 

[Cian]

Enough of this bollocks about abortion, I'm still waiting for an explanation for this gloriously incomphensible piece of MYOB bullshit:



Come on, how is a "pint as a measurement" produced?

Anything being produced as a "pint" has legally been produced as 568ml since whenever it was in the 1970s you brought in metric measurements; thats how.

 

[Monkster]

Bored now, off a couple of 284mls

 

[Cian]

pint might be used in Ireland, but it not an officially permitted term.

Its officially permitted by the NSAI (www.nsai.ie), who assumed the functions of the weights and measures office.

 

[tedebear]

Jesus - some people are quite anal about detail aren't they. There are some things in life that beurocrats should not be worrying their poor addled brains with. This is one. Who is it hurting? No-one, so let us call a pint a pint or whatever the heck we please and spend time worrying about something that needs worrying about....

 

[The Large One]

Wikipedia is frequently wrong. Since some time in the 1980s (about the time the morning after pill became easily available) it hasn't been illegal for the doctor to perform an abortion, until 1992 it was illegal for the woman to procure it.

Theres been a few more tests cases since, the Attorney General vs. C. and Attorney General vs. D. which further loosened any control the state had over procurement within Ireland. As far as I can recall, Miss C. had her abortion in Ireland; the D Case was entirely over the right of the health boards to restrict the right to travel of a ward of court; it was ruled they couldn't.

Girl C had to go to court to get an abortion when she was being told she couldn't even leave the state for one. Eventually, the judge agreed she could because she was suicidal. But at no time was he law changed to make it legal.

That is VASTLY different from UK law.

 

[Mendoza]

I love Desk

 

[crasher]

I'm the one living here, you're the one watching from afar.

By that pathetic "logic", you must be wrong about pints being obsolete. You're not in the UK so you can't possibly know.

 

[Marc]

did someone mention iPods?

 

[Cian]

Girl C had to go to court to get an abortion when she was being told she couldn't even leave the state for one. Eventually, the judge agreed she could because she was suicidal. But at no time was he law changed to make it legal.

That is VASTLY different from UK law.

The "travel ban" is different. Everything else, post-X, is virtually identical except for the implementation and enforcement, which are much heavier here.

And the reason for that, coming back to how this came up, is not down to any church influence - they have no influence - but down to the will of the people in the votes on the 8th, 12th, 13th, 14th and 25th amendements.

The 25th amendment attempted to reverse the allowances under X, and was only run due to a minority government who would have fallen had a certain TD (MP) stopped voting for them. That TD, Mildred Fox, demanded that referendum as she is viciously anti abortion. She's also protestant, not catholic....

 

[Cian]

I'm the one living here, you're the one watching from afar.

By that pathetic "logic", you must be wrong about pints being obsolete. You're not in the UK so you can't possibly know.

I'm in the EU, they're legally obsolete EU wide.

 

[Mr C]

By four countries, two of which are third world; one of which has been slowly obsoleting them for 40 years and where they mean different things anyway (the US), and the UK.

Thats obsolete to me.

I wouldn't say the U.S. has been obsoleting them at all!