[Politics] Liz Truss **RESIGNS 20/10/2022**

[Gwylan]

But would this necessarily be a good thing?

A strong, credible opposition is every bit as important as an effective government.

There's a good article in The Times this morning that suggests that the Tories, in their present state, are not an effective party and need a heavy defeat to become a credible opposition again. A narrow defeat may not have that effect: it needs a good duffing-up to become a "moderate, pragmatic party" again

 

[Lenny Rider]

Just watching GMB, when you’ve got a tabloid running a feature of whether a Lettuce will outlast Liz Truss and respected Breakfast Anchors stating ‘I don’t believe a word she(Truss) says’, have we not reached the point of no return?

Ben Wallace next?

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

According to the guardian up to 100 letters of no confidence have been submitted.

Hunt now PM in all but name, but the sudden snap between Trussenomics and Austerity 2.0 is giving me whiplash.

 

[Hugo Rune]

But would this necessarily be a good thing?

A strong, credible opposition is every bit as important as an effective government.

It’s the warping effect of FPTP. The ‘strong government’ this electoral system is meant to produce has now been totally debunked. The Tories last election campaign was all about the political chaos and tanking of the economy a Labour government would bring, instead they have delivered exactly what they warned against complete with a ‘magic money tree’.

Whilst I’m sure that Labour will be effective under Starmer, it’s bad democracy and the Government that their majority will be so huge. An electoral system for ‘grown ups’ could see a much stronger correlation of national votes against number of MP’s. The Labour Party conference voted to change the electoral system, when they inevitably get into power and start sorting out the horrific mess the Tories have made, they must be held to account over ditching FPTP once and for all. Their majority will be too big.

 

[Frutos]

Just watching GMB, when you’ve got a tabloid running a feature of whether a Lettuce will outlast Liz Truss and respected Breakfast Anchors stating ‘I don’t believe a word she(Truss) says’, have we not reached the point of no return?

Ben Wallace next?

I think we definitely are at that 'point of no return' - Tories have always been ruthless and quick to dump leaders when weakness is scented, and I can't remember a weaker PM in my lifetime.

 

[beorhthelm]

bond yields falling quite a bit on London open, still way above trend.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Patience! I’ve been busy. No need to head for the hills. I live in them

If you’re preparing a large sixth form essay I’d strongly counsel you that no one on here will a) read it or b) give a shiny shit.

 

[happypig]

The problem I have (and I say this as a former Labour member and candidate*) is that Labour are only so far ahead in the polls because the Tories are so poor. In 1997 Tony Blair was seen by many floating voters as a "PM in waiting", he was exciting and he delivered; Starmer is seen as "not as bad as Johnson/Truss, a steady hand".
If the Tories had someone with gravitas and integrity they might be able to turn it around but I cannot see anyone in the current lineup who fits the bill; There may be a few on the fringe (Tugendhat ? Ellwood ?) but they're more likely to want to become leader when in opposition, rebuild the party (without the racists, crooks, loons and crooked loony racists) and have a go in 2029.


*Placed third twice

 

[Bold Seagull]

Just watching GMB, when you’ve got a tabloid running a feature of whether a Lettuce will outlast Liz Truss and respected Breakfast Anchors stating ‘I don’t believe a word she(Truss) says’, have we not reached the point of no return?

Ben Wallace next?

Wasn't reached with Ed Miliband eating a bacon sandwich, or Neil Kinnock slipping on a beach (it was the Sun wot won it), John Major's demise for being grey and boring despite being arguably the best Conservative Party Leader in over half a century?

How is the Star running a wet lettuce comparison suddenly the point of no return? I mean I agree, the way the press behave is what makes MPs reluctant to be completely honest in interviews for fear of their answers being twisted and misrepresented, I just don't quite understand how you see this as suddenly the press having gone to far? That ship sailed 30 years ago.

 

[Seagull27]

The problem I have (and I say this as a former Labour member and candidate*) is that Labour are only so far ahead in the polls because the Tories are so poor. In 1997 Tony Blair was seen by many floating voters as a "PM in waiting", he was exciting and he delivered; Starmer is seen as "not as bad as Johnson/Truss, a steady hand".
If the Tories had someone with gravitas and integrity they might be able to turn it around but I cannot see anyone in the current lineup who fits the bill; There may be a few on the fringe (Tugendhat ? Ellwood ?) but they're more likely to want to become leader when in opposition, rebuild the party (without the racists, crooks, loons and crooked loony racists) and have a go in 2029.


*Placed third twice

I think Starmer could become that person, but it's too early for him to reveal his hand. Let's see what policies he announces closer to the election - if he has a few more up his sleeve like the public-owned green energy company then I think he'll definitely fit the bill.

 

[jakarta]

It will be Hunt taking over but in the long term Ben Wallace surely the Tories only hope?

 

[A mex eyecan]

I think Starmer could become that person, but it's too early for him to reveal his hand. Let's see what policies he announces closer to the election - if he has a few more up his sleeve like the public-owned green energy company then I think he'll definitely fit the bill.

trouble with him keeping his cards close to his chest and not actually stating much in the way of what his policies are/would be is that it makes one wonder if he actually has any or if indeed he knows what he would do. It’s a fairly simple job standing in the side lines saying the government have got it all wrong and they should do this or that.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The problem I have (and I say this as a former Labour member and candidate*) is that Labour are only so far ahead in the polls because the Tories are so poor. In 1997 Tony Blair was seen by many floating voters as a "PM in waiting", he was exciting and he delivered; Starmer is seen as "not as bad as Johnson/Truss, a steady hand".
If the Tories had someone with gravitas and integrity they might be able to turn it around but I cannot see anyone in the current lineup who fits the bill; There may be a few on the fringe (Tugendhat ? Ellwood ?) but they're more likely to want to become leader when in opposition, rebuild the party (without the racists, crooks, loons and crooked loony racists) and have a go in 2029.


*Placed third twice

Conditions are completely different now to 1997. After the complete shitshow that this country has become after the Brexit result became clear, I'd settle for any sensible adult, slightly to the left or right of centre who could actually get us back to a point where people who know what they're doing and talking about are given jobs instead of being seen as the enemy. Starmer may well be that person but I'd be fairly happy if they happened to have an orange or blue rosette (so long as there was a tinge of green ). We just need good, sensible governance to get the country and the world through the current set of global crisis without screwing up our kids' futures.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Wasn't reached with Ed Miliband eating a bacon sandwich, or Neil Kinnock slipping on a beach (it was the Sun wot won it), John Major's demise for being grey and boring despite being arguably the best Conservative Party Leader in over half a century?

Major's government was toppled due to Black Wednesday in 1992. It ruined their credibility as being a safe pair of hands with the economy - their polling dropped massively and they lost a run of by-elections and council elections.

There were major conflicts over Europe, a leadership tussle - and the cash for questions scandal. Major also launched a 'back to basics' campaign, which was all about conservative social values - followed by numerous sexual scandals (amongst other scandals) which completely contradicted the policy's aims.

The three that really stick in my mind were Milligan's auto-erotic asphyxiation, Brown's (Michael not Gordon) holiday with a 20 year old man when the age of consent was still 21, and then cash for questions. Those events happened in about 6-8 months of each other.

But it was really Black Wednesday that started it all off, and that's why we're seeing all of this angst again now with Truss. The right wing press will not critique the Conservative party until their actions damage the middle classes. Like the 80s, we've all been suffering for more than a decade - but it's not until the middle classes scream (interest rates, housing market crash) that anything changes.

 

[nicko31]

Major's government was toppled due to Black Wednesday in 1992. It ruined their credibility as being a safe pair of hands with the economy - their polling dropped massively and they lost a run of by-elections and council elections.

There were major conflicts over Europe, a leadership tussle - and the cash for questions scandal. Major also launched a 'back to basics' campaign, which was all about conservative social values - followed by numerous sexual scandals (amongst other scandals) which completely contradicted the policy's aims.

The three that really stick in my mind were Milligan's auto-erotic asphyxiation, Brown's (Michael not Gordon) holiday with a 20 year old man when the age of consent was still 21, and then cash for questions. Those events happened in about 6-8 months of each other.

But it was really Black Wednesday that started it all off, and that's why we're seeing all of this angst again now with Truss. The right wing press will not critique the Conservative party until their actions damage the middle classes. Like the 80s, we've all been suffering for more than a decade - but it's not until the middle classes scream (interest rates, housing market crash) that anything changes.

And there are dark clouds coming in the property market. In BTL not being able to offset mortgage interest was OK with 2% rate but with 6% rates the business model will be on its arse, especially for JCL's

Prices are going to fall and the blame will be on the government, Labour will milk it

 

[Guinness Boy]

Major's government was toppled due to Black Wednesday in 1992. It ruined their credibility as being a safe pair of hands with the economy - their polling dropped massively and they lost a run of by-elections and council elections.

There were major conflicts over Europe, a leadership tussle - and the cash for questions scandal. Major also launched a 'back to basics' campaign, which was all about conservative social values - followed by numerous sexual scandals (amongst other scandals) which completely contradicted the policy's aims.

The three that really stick in my mind were Milligan's auto-erotic asphyxiation, Brown's (Michael not Gordon) holiday with a 20 year old man when the age of consent was still 21, and then cash for questions. Those events happened in about 6-8 months of each other.

But it was really Black Wednesday that started it all off, and that's why we're seeing all of this angst again now with Truss. The right wing press will not critique the Conservative party until their actions damage the middle classes. Like the 80s, we've all been suffering for more than a decade - but it's not until the middle classes scream (interest rates, housing market crash) that anything changes.

I pretty much agree with a lot of that but as for the bolded bit - well, I believe that the working classes screamed in 2019 that they weren't getting their Brexit and it was being diluted by undemocratic loons and experts.

That went well.

 

[Notters]

The problem I have (and I say this as a former Labour member and candidate*) is that Labour are only so far ahead in the polls because the Tories are so poor. In 1997 Tony Blair was seen by many floating voters as a "PM in waiting", he was exciting and he delivered; Starmer is seen as "not as bad as Johnson/Truss, a steady hand".
If the Tories had someone with gravitas and integrity they might be able to turn it around but I cannot see anyone in the current lineup who fits the bill; There may be a few on the fringe (Tugendhat ? Ellwood ?) but they're more likely to want to become leader when in opposition, rebuild the party (without the racists, crooks, loons and crooked loony racists) and have a go in 2029.


*Placed third twice

This is partly because, for some bizarre reason, the public seem to thinking being exciting is more important that competence when it comes to the PM. Give me a dullard who knows what he's doing anyway (not that I think Starmer is that bad anyway).

 

[chickens]

Conditions are completely different now to 1997. After the complete shitshow that this country has become after the Brexit result became clear, I'd settle for any sensible adult, slightly to the left or right of centre who could actually get us back to a point where people who know what they're doing and talking about are given jobs instead of being seen as the enemy. Starmer may well be that person but I'd be fairly happy if they happened to have an orange or blue rosette (so long as there was a tinge of green ). We just need good, sensible governance to get the country and the world through the current set of global crisis without screwing up our kids' futures.

I think that tinge of green is incredibly important. Reducing energy usage via insulation and energy efficiency is important, as is pivoting to renewable energy and energy storage solutions. To have a government that is actively hampering these efforts is an act of self-harm that should not be easily forgiven.

We may not like the aesthetics of wind farms or solar farms, but they are a significant improvement on other energy sources, and coupled with storage are indisputably the future of energy generation.

To have a government prohibiting the use of land for new solar farms, while issuing new licenses for fracking is not just short-sighted, it harms every single one of us, quite apart from the longer term effects it has on those who live on lower lying land thousands of miles away. We need these clowns out, and out now.

 

[Giraffe]

There's a good article in The Times this morning that suggests that the Tories, in their present state, are not an effective party and need a heavy defeat to become a credible opposition again. A narrow defeat may not have that effect: it needs a good duffing-up to become a "moderate, pragmatic party" again

Absolutely my take as well. Only way forward is now to take the defeat and come back stronger. Whole party needs to look at what the members want as there is a massive disconnect between members and MPs which is not good for democracy.

I really wouldn't be surprised if the Tories lose by so much that half the current MPs lose their seats which may be no bad thing in the long run.

At that stage, don't be surprised of Boris comes back as a very effective opposition leader. It's the easiest job in the world and he would do it very effectively.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

I pretty much agree with a lot of that but as for the bolded bit - well, I believe that the working classes screamed in 2019 that they weren't getting their Brexit and it was being diluted by undemocratic loons and experts.

That went well.

True, but that's only because their views were useful to a bunch of hedge fund millionaires.