Living longer! Getting Fatter! Any kid who can write his/her name qualifies for Uni..

[Southwick_Seagull]

Likewise, I'm lucky as a student nurse my course is funded by the nhs and I get a monthly bursary too.

I'd not have been able to do this course otherwise.

All my housemates are going to have student loan payments til there 65!

They get written off after 10 years. As someone who worked bloody hard for the grades to get into uni I find the "exams are getting easier" debate very boring. To put it in football terms, you can only beat what's put in front of you.

 

[e77]

Not for long. The Diploma programme is now being superseded by a Degree one, hence no bursaries, and nurses having to pay Student Loans on qualification.

Must be very dedicated to build up debt to earn a nurse's wage.

 

[SeagullRic]

Not for long. The Diploma programme is now being superseded by a Degree one, hence no bursaries, and nurses having to pay Student Loans on qualification.

What will also (probably) happen soon under this Conservative government is the de-regulation of maximum prices for courses. Universities such as Oxford and Cambridge have been pushing for such measures for a while, as it would allow them to generate much higher revenue, by potentially charging as much as £20,000 a year for courses.

Clearly, this would result in a reduction in the number of people attending uni as many would simply not be able to pay such astronomical prices, and the majority would not receive sufficient funding. All of which of course increases the likelihood of exclusivity within Britains top universities, broadening the social class gap and ultimately resulting in the continuance of our inegalitarian society

 

[HseagullsH]

What will also (probably) happen soon under this Conservative government is the de-regulation of maximum prices for courses. Universities such as Oxford and Cambridge have been pushing for such measures for a while, as it would allow them to generate much higher revenue, by potentially charging as much as £20,000 a year for courses.

Clearly, this would result in a reduction in the number of people attending uni as many would simply not be able to pay such astronomical prices, and the majority would not receive sufficient funding. All of which of course increases the likelihood of exclusivity within Britains top universities, broadening the social class gap and ultimately resulting in the continuance of our inegalitarian society

This may be a slightly different point to yours but I agree that university should be an elitist thing in a way. These days there are so many different universities and different courses that you don't need to do any work to go to university.

I mean there are universities in England you can get in without even PASSING your a levels. The majority of these degrees are fairly 'worthless' in the real world so basically you are back to square one but with a huge debt. Then these people aren't willing to accept mediocre fairly low paid jobs because they have a 'degree' and then this just leads to unemployment.

Therefore elitist in the sense that those who work hard should be able to go to university, rather than due to being able to afford it.

 

[Don Quixote]

This may be a slightly different point to yours but I agree that university should be an elitist thing in a way. These days there are so many different universities and different courses that you don't need to do any work to go to university.

I mean there are universities in England you can get in without even PASSING your a levels. The majority of these degrees are fairly 'worthless' in the real world so basically you are back to square one but with a huge debt. Then these people aren't willing to accept mediocre fairly low paid jobs because they have a 'degree' and then this just leads to unemployment.

Therefore elitist in the sense that those who work hard should be able to go to university, rather than due to being able to afford it.

What kind of worthless degree can I get without A levels? Just incase ya know.

 

[HseagullsH]

What kind of worthless degree can I get without A levels? Just incase ya know.

Applied golf management studies

 

[Gwylan]

I mean there are universities in England you can get in without even PASSING your a levels.

That's always been the case though. When I was at uni in the mid-70s there were people on my course who hadn't got any A Levels. The requirement for mature students was to show that you had the requisite ability by submitting an entrance essay.

I'm not sure of the situation now but you didn't have to have A Levels to get into Oxbridge - you had to take an entrance exam and could get in that way.

 

[Don Quixote]

Applied golf management studies

Yes, QUALITY. But do I have to be able to play golf?

 

[beorhthelm]

What kind of worthless degree can I get without A levels? Just incase ya know.

if the requirements are as they were when i did my UCAS applications 15 years ago, a good deal. Greenwich University for one allowed admitance to computing, business or media studies without A levels, East London, Thames Valley also only required E grades (which you could obtain by basically turning up, i know i did). I went to Southbank on a D and E and i had offers to turn down.

under the previous Conserative government, all the old higher eduction colleges where turned into universities offering degrees, but the quality and requirements often didnt really match the old redbrick or even the modern unis of the 60's. then Labour came along with an arbitary target of getting 50% school leavers into university. funding is obtained by numbers on courses in the first year, so its all about bums on seats. nevermind that about half failed to get to the third year let alone graduate.

half a generation has been sold a lie that uni education is important and a must have, when the truth is to get the decent graduate jobs requires you to go to the old redbrick (unless you do a course recognised for excellence like CS at Sussex or Fashion at Brighton), so bugger all has changed really - expect Labour took the grant away so now graduates leave with a massive debt too. Time to acknowledge a degree is supposed to be representitive of the top talent and a bit elitist, not simply a delay in going into work for half the 18-21yo population (a target failed they failed to achive anyway), and get back to quality rather than quality, with free tuition at least if not grants.

 

[SeagullRic]

This may be a slightly different point to yours but I agree that university should be an elitist thing in a way. These days there are so many different universities and different courses that you don't need to do any work to go to university.

I mean there are universities in England you can get in without even PASSING your a levels. The majority of these degrees are fairly 'worthless' in the real world so basically you are back to square one but with a huge debt. Then these people aren't willing to accept mediocre fairly low paid jobs because they have a 'degree' and then this just leads to unemployment.

Therefore elitist in the sense that those who work hard should be able to go to university, rather than due to being able to afford it.

I agree to an extent although clearly for some vocational courses offered achieving A levels doesn't qualify you any better, for example hair dressing. What I was really trying to get at was how vastly unfair such a system would be, as it would make it very hard for students from low income families to pay these fees and so consequently their child may miss out on a course due to not having had a privileged background.

As I understand it (following a talk at College) the government want to implement the scheme for the 2012 intake, although if you apply for a deferred place this year you should still be able to pay no more than the current maximum (just over 3 grand a year). Either way, university places are going to drop (due to the lack of funding) which will result in a decrease in the percentage attending uni and thus a change to the current trend.

 

[alan partridge]

Kids today eh?

They get panned as all being useless louts, who hang around street corners in hoodies and robbing old ladies. But the alternative is to sit in your room, work bloody hard pass all your exams, and have as your reward .... everyone say "pah, the exams are so easy these days, you only have to write your name to get into University, blah, blah humbug."

Anyone else think we are just bashing kids from all directions these days?

abso-bloody-exactly

and no surprise that it's the attention seeking tory boy who starts this thread with the ridiculous title.

 

[Djmiles]

They get written off after 10 years. As someone who worked bloody hard for the grades to get into uni I find the "exams are getting easier" debate very boring. To put it in football terms, you can only beat what's put in front of you.

It's 25 years, but I agree with you about the easy exams part. I don't think any one person can whether exams are getting easier, whether they are teachers or just grumpy old men.

I have a huge debt, and even with a decent degree I find myself stacking shelves. Money well spent ay!

 

[HseagullsH]

if the requirements are as they were when i did my UCAS applications 15 years ago, a good deal. Greenwich University for one allowed admitance to computing, business or media studies without A levels, East London, Thames Valley also only required E grades (which you could obtain by basically turning up, i know i did). I went to Southbank on a D and E and i had offers to turn down.

under the previous Conserative government, all the old higher eduction colleges where turned into universities offering degrees, but the quality and requirements often didnt really match the old redbrick or even the modern unis of the 60's. then Labour came along with an arbitary target of getting 50% school leavers into university. funding is obtained by numbers on courses in the first year, so its all about bums on seats. nevermind that about half failed to get to the third year let alone graduate.

half a generation has been sold a lie that uni education is important and a must have, when the truth is to get the decent graduate jobs requires you to go to the old redbrick (unless you do a course recognised for excellence like CS at Sussex or Fashion at Brighton), so bugger all has changed really - expect Labour took the grant away so now graduates leave with a massive debt too. Time to acknowledge a degree is supposed to be representitive of the top talent and a bit elitist, not simply a delay in going into work for half the 18-21yo population (a target failed they failed to achive anyway), and get back to quality rather than quality, with free tuition at least if not grants.

I agree entirely with this. It is for this reason I did another full year at college as my initial grades wouldn't have given me any chance of gaining a place in a top 20 (Russell Group) university.

Top post

 

[Don Quixote]

You haven't gained your place yet H

 

[Gwylan]

if the requirements are as they were when i did my UCAS applications 15 years ago, a good deal. Greenwich University for one allowed admitance to computing, business or media studies without A levels, East London, Thames Valley also only required E grades (which you could obtain by basically turning up, i know i did). I went to Southbank on a D and E and i had offers to turn down.

under the previous Conserative government, all the old higher eduction colleges where turned into universities offering degrees, but the quality and requirements often didnt really match the old redbrick or even the modern unis of the 60's. then Labour came along with an arbitary target of getting 50% school leavers into university. funding is obtained by numbers on courses in the first year, so its all about bums on seats. nevermind that about half failed to get to the third year let alone graduate.

half a generation has been sold a lie that uni education is important and a must have, when the truth is to get the decent graduate jobs requires you to go to the old redbrick (unless you do a course recognised for excellence like CS at Sussex or Fashion at Brighton), so bugger all has changed really - expect Labour took the grant away so now graduates leave with a massive debt too. Time to acknowledge a degree is supposed to be representitive of the top talent and a bit elitist, not simply a delay in going into work for half the 18-21yo population (a target failed they failed to achive anyway), and get back to quality rather than quality, with free tuition at least if not grants.

I agree with some of the thinking on this - the Tories making vocational colleges into universities seemed crazy at the time and Labour's plan for 50% of school leavers appeared to be more about keeping unemployment down than improving education.

Having said that, when I went to uni nearly 35 years ago, only about 7% of the school leavers went to uni. While 50% is a nonsensical figure, 7% was far too narrow, that's why both Tories and Labour tried to increase the figure. Having such a small proportion of students tends to perpetuate an elite.

Agree about fees. It's sobering to think that I was the first member of my entire extended family to get to uni and that my own kids might not be able to afford to go - that's scarcely progression.

 

[Gully]

Yes, QUALITY. But do I have to be able to play golf?

Probably not...England just sent 23 men off to compete in the World Cup, there was little evidence during their stay to suggest they could play football!

 

[drew]

Perhaps what we need to see is a return to academic studies at University and vocational studies elsewhere, as it was with the good old Polytechnics.

Michael Gove has recently suggested that we will also return to more exam based qualifications rather than the module type. Probably the only thing he has ever said which I agree with.

 

[HseagullsH]

You haven't gained your place yet H

I said no chance of gaining a place in a top 20 university before whereas after an extra year I do have a chance..

After the last few exams though, I may not meet the offer

 

[beorhthelm]

Having said that, when I went to uni nearly 35 years ago, only about 7% of the school leavers went to uni. While 50% is a nonsensical figure, 7% was far too narrow, that's why both Tories and Labour tried to increase the figure. Having such a small proportion of students tends to perpetuate an elite.

yeah, it is a worthy aim to improve the numbers going through higher education, but it shouldnt have been done with artificial methods such as simply increasing the number of institutions, places available and targets, but through improving the secondary and tertiary education so more were prepared and suited to the rigour of proper higher education. theres no problem with an "elite", the real problem is there shouldnt be any shame to going to colleges for vocational based diplomas, unfortunately the idea this is second rate somehow has been perpetuated on all sides for too long. a mechanic or plumber will earn more and have a better quality of life than most graduates until they are in their 50's (for those that actually progress).

 

[withdeanwombat]

I'm not fat, worked hard for my exams and dont steal from old ladies.

Young bloody waster.Get off your backside and start being a proper youth of today.

Kids,eh? Who'd 'av 'em.