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[News] Letter to the Police - Important Please read



Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,934
As a Jew and a supporter of Palestinian rights I have avoided the main thread. But this piece of Braverman suggests we can not show support for Palestinians in any noticeable way or face prosecution. I feel I could do this without being a threat to Britain's Jewish community - but apparently not. It's like being in the Labour party all over again.
Why would that make you avoid the main thread? Are you worried about repercussions outside of NSC? If it’s just the thread, your views and ethnicity would be welcome - it’s been a really good debate.

PS Also Jew in support of Palestinian rights 🇵🇸🇮🇱
 






nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,574
Gods country fortnightly
Sadly she is now completely deaf. She's 12 years old and has lost her spring. She loves swimming but would get in trouble quickly, head says yes body says no. At one point I had to reel her in. She still loves our swimming pool.

The only thing with her loving water my caravan stunk of wet dog for the week :ROFLMAO:
My mother has one, also 12 but a working springer. Amazing animal and a real peoples dog, only just starting to real slow up
 


maltaseagull

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
13,361
Zabbar- Malta
As a Jew and a supporter of Palestinian rights I have avoided the main thread. But this piece of Braverman suggests we can not show support for Palestinians in any noticeable way or face prosecution. I feel I could do this without being a threat to Britain's Jewish community - but apparently not. It's like being in the Labour party all over again

Our country really f*cked up when it created the state of Israel didn't it? Imagine how different the world would be if we'd found them a homeland somewhere in Europe or America instead, or we'd all just learnt to live in harmony again after the war. I dunno, but you can't help thinking that all this Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism wouldn't have arisen without Israel as the lightning rod.
Well thought out post.

Where exactly in Europe or the USA should they have relocated the millions of people?
And what would you suggest they did with those living there already.

I am not saying allowing Israel to be created at the expense of the Palestinians was correct either. Pretty much an impossible situation.
 


Coalburner

Active member
May 22, 2017
315
Please see below the letter from the UK Home Secretary to the Chief Constables .

Whatever your views on the current crisis in Israel; what is undisputed is that Hamas is a prescribed terrorist group in its entirety here in the UK , in USA as well as numerous other countries in Europe & beyond .

Please read below what people in this country are NOT allowed to do & if they do they can be committing a criminal offence .

Particularly I draw your attention to either inviting support for Hamas or expressing support for Hamas in a reckless manner that would encourage others to support .

If anyone were to post anything on NSC that breaches the guidelines listed in the letter below , then you can be reported to the police for potentially committing a criminal offence ( your contact info would be requested via the owner and main administrator of this message board )

I thought it important that everyone in NSC was made aware .

If someone gets a criminal record this can have an impact on many things including your job .



Chief Constables England and Wales
Copied to Police and Crime Commissioners England and Wales

10 October 2023
Dear all,
You will be aware of, and no doubt share my disgust at, the barbaric terrorist attacks we’ve seen committed against Israel in recent days. Sadly, experience indicates that whenever Israel is attacked, Islamists and other racists, seek to use legitimate Israeli defensive measures as a pretext to stir up hatred against British Jews and increase fear within the Jewish community. In the past, this has included vandalism of Jewish businesses, desecration of memorials and religious sites, physical and verbal abuse of Jews on the streets, convoys driving through Jewish neighbourhoods hurling antisemitic abuse, and proliferation of antisemitism online. There is an obvious risk that this pattern will be repeated during the current conflict.
I am aware that a number of police forces, working in close coordination with the Community Security Trust (CST) and other Jewish communal bodies, have already taken operational measures to strengthen the security of Jewish communities, including through increased patrols in neighbourhoods with large Jewish populations.
I know that increased visibility of patrols, as well as a swift and zero tolerance approach to antisemitism, will provide our Jewish communities with reassurance that the police are taking this threat seriously and will be there to protect them if need be.
As you know, Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK in its entirety. It is therefore a criminal offence for a person in the UK to:
  • belong to Hamas
  • invite support for Hamas
  • express support for Hamas whilst being reckless as to whether the expression will encourage support of it
  • arrange a meeting in support of Hamas
  • wear clothing or carry articles in public which arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of Hamas or
  • publish an image of an article such as a flag or logo in the same circumstances
At a time when Hamas terrorists are massacring civilians and taking the most vulnerable (including the elderly, women, and children) hostage, we can all recognise the harrowing effect that displays of their logos and flags can have on communities. I therefore ask that your police forces are alert and ready to respond to any potential offences.
Of course, it is not just explicit pro-Hamas symbols and chants that are cause for concern. I would encourage police to consider whether chants such as “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” should be understood as an expression of a violent desire to see Israel erased from the world, and whether its use in certain contexts may amount to a racially aggravated section 5 public order offence.
I would encourage police to give similar consideration to the presence of symbols such as swastikas at anti-Israel demonstrations. Context is crucial. Behaviours that are legitimate in some circumstances, for example the waving of a Palestinian flag, may not be legitimate such as when intended to glorify acts of terrorism. Nor is it acceptable to drive through Jewish neighbourhoods, or single out Jewish members of the public, to aggressively chant or wave pro-Palestinian symbols at. Where harassment is identified, I would encourage the police to take swift and appropriate enforcement action.
I encourage all Chief Officers to ensure that any protests which could exacerbate community tensions by way of offensive placards, chants, or behaviours that could be construed as incitement or harassment, have a strong police presence to ensure perpetrators are appropriately dealt with, and that communities feel protected. Decisions on arrests are rightly an operational matter for the police, in line with the duty to keep the peace, to protect communities, and to prevent the commission of offences. However, I would urge you to ensure your forces use all available powers to prevent disorder and distress to our communities, and that your officers will act if there are any incidents that stray into criminality.
I have also been absolutely clear that online offending is as serious as offline offending. You will be aware that we have robust legislation in place to deal with terrorist content online, as well as threatening and abusive behaviour or behaviour which is intended or likely to stir up hatred. I urge you to ensure that this continues to be taken into consideration in the upcoming days and that any reports of online offending are dealt with promptly.
I expect online referral units to respond swiftly to any content that breaks the law. In particular, I expect the CT Internet Referral Unit to monitor the situation and respond quickly to any online content that breaches the thresholds for terrorism legislation (TACT), working with tech companies to ensure its removal. I similarly expect the Online Hate Crime Hub to respond to any reports of online content that contravenes hate crime legislation to ensure the perpetrators can be brought to justice.
There can be no place for antisemitism or glorification of terrorism on the streets of Britain. I therefore expect the police to use the full force of the law against displays of support for Hamas, other proscribed terrorist groups or attempts to harass and intimidate British Jews.
Ensuring that there are heavy criminal consequences for any perpetrators is the best way to deter future offending and ensure the confidence and safety of our Jewish communities.
Yours sincerely,
Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP
As a matter of accuracy, Hamas is a prOscribed terrorist group, not a prEscribed one
 






jackanada

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2011
3,507
Brighton
Just a quick reminder of the events of WW2. Six million jews murdered by the nazis, they were transported to gas chambers from all over Europe, do you really think that they would have taken up the offer of going back to a European country where the population had only recently served them up to the Gestapo. This is precisely the reason for the 'Exodus' to Israel

'but you can't help thinking that all this Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism wouldn't have arisen without Israel as the lightning rod' yes maybe
Over 11 million people, over 6 million of them Jewish. A good chunk of the rest the sort of humanitarian leftist we seem intent on silencing .
 






BN9 BHA

DOCKERS
NSC Patron
Jul 14, 2013
22,668
Newhaven
IMG_0133.jpeg
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,436
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Just a quick reminder of the events of WW2. Six million jews murdered by the nazis, they were transported to gas chambers from all over Europe, do you really think that they would have taken up the offer of going back to a European country where the population had only recently served them up to the Gestapo. This is precisely the reason for the 'Exodus' to Israel

'but you can't help thinking that all this Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism wouldn't have arisen without Israel as the lightning rod' yes maybe
Hey, I'm not oblivious to it. That Hitler has a lot to answer for 😡 Although the idea of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and the movement of jews to Palestine heavily predates WW2. That was just the catalyst to formalise it, and consequently, to raise tensions in the region.
Where exactly in Europe or the USA should they have relocated the millions of people?
And what would you suggest they did with those living there already.

I am not saying allowing Israel to be created at the expense of the Palestinians was correct either. Pretty much an impossible situation.
Its a thought experiment, I don't have all the answers. But hey, the western US is quite desert-y. And there's more jews in the US than in Israel. Might have been a perfect match.

Anyway I also thought that it was a consequence of WW2, turns out that moving to Palestine was first mooted in 1839 and agreed by the European powers in 1920.

Palestine also wasn't the only option on the table. As lifted from Wikipedia:

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[17] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[18]

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland. Another possible option explored by the Soviets was Jewish autonomy in Crimea.

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[19]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[20] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

a plan for Jews to settle the Sitka area in Alaska, the Slattery Report, was proposed by U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt's Secretary of the Interior Harold L. Ickes in 1939 but turned down


So there you go, Alaska. I've learnt something today.
 
Last edited:






Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
14,883
Almería
Hey, I'm not oblivious to it. That Hitler has a lot to answer for 😡 Although the idea of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and the movement of jews to Palestine heavily predates WW2. That was just the catalyst to formalise it, and consequently, to raise tensions in the region.

Its a thought experiment, I don't have all the answers. But hey, the western US is quite desert-y. And there's more jews in the US than in Israel. Might have been a perfect match.

Anyway I also thought that it was a consequence of WW2, turns out that moving to Palestine was first mooted in 1839 and agreed by the European powers in 1920.

Palestine also wasn't the only option on the table. As lifted from Wikipedia:

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[17] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[18]

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland. Another possible option explored by the Soviets was Jewish autonomy in Crimea.

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[19]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[20] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

a plan for Jews to settle the Sitka area in Alaska, the Slattery Report, was proposed by U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt's Secretary of the Interior Harold L. Ickes in 1939 but turned down


So there you go, Alaska. I've learnt something today.

Anyone else read The Yiddish Policemen's Union by Michael Chabon? It's set in an alternative history in which a settlement of Jewish refugees was created in Alaska. Good read.
 


Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
25,903
As a Jew and a supporter of Palestinian rights I have avoided the main thread. But this piece of Braverman suggests we can not show support for Palestinians in any noticeable way or face prosecution. I feel I could do this without being a threat to Britain's Jewish community - but apparently not. It's like being in the Labour party all over again.
Agreed. I have to say that there are two separate issues at hand here. And it seems the government, like much of the press, are fusing them together. As a person who throughout his life has had an affection, respect and also intrigue towards the Jewish race it irks me. I was once accused of being a 'ranging anti-Semite' for raising deep miss-givings about some factions of Zionist doctrine. That was deeply offensive to me as I am quite the opposite.

It is possible to utterly condemn the actions of Hamas militants, and demand justice for those who have suffered in recent days at their hands, whilst condemning apartheid policy and the excesses of the Israeli government. But it appears that right is being eroded. Keir Starmer today lost all respect from me. To say that a siege, in which the essentials of human existence are denied to the most vulnerable, is the right of any nation is to set the world back generations.

That letter from Braverman made me go cold. I saw its undercurrent. Ugly.
 


keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,972
Anyone else read The Yiddish Policemen's Union by Michael Chabon? It's set in an alternative history in which a settlement of Jewish refugees was created in Alaska. Good read.
Excellent book
 






Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,097
Faversham
Please see below the letter from the UK Home Secretary to the Chief Constables .

Whatever your views on the current crisis in Israel; what is undisputed is that Hamas is a prescribed terrorist group in its entirety here in the UK , in USA as well as numerous other countries in Europe & beyond .

Please read below what people in this country are NOT allowed to do & if they do they can be committing a criminal offence .

Particularly I draw your attention to either inviting support for Hamas or expressing support for Hamas in a reckless manner that would encourage others to support .

If anyone were to post anything on NSC that breaches the guidelines listed in the letter below , then you can be reported to the police for potentially committing a criminal offence ( your contact info would be requested via the owner and main administrator of this message board )

I thought it important that everyone in NSC was made aware .

If someone gets a criminal record this can have an impact on many things including your job .



Chief Constables England and Wales
Copied to Police and Crime Commissioners England and Wales

10 October 2023
Dear all,
You will be aware of, and no doubt share my disgust at, the barbaric terrorist attacks we’ve seen committed against Israel in recent days. Sadly, experience indicates that whenever Israel is attacked, Islamists and other racists, seek to use legitimate Israeli defensive measures as a pretext to stir up hatred against British Jews and increase fear within the Jewish community. In the past, this has included vandalism of Jewish businesses, desecration of memorials and religious sites, physical and verbal abuse of Jews on the streets, convoys driving through Jewish neighbourhoods hurling antisemitic abuse, and proliferation of antisemitism online. There is an obvious risk that this pattern will be repeated during the current conflict.
I am aware that a number of police forces, working in close coordination with the Community Security Trust (CST) and other Jewish communal bodies, have already taken operational measures to strengthen the security of Jewish communities, including through increased patrols in neighbourhoods with large Jewish populations.
I know that increased visibility of patrols, as well as a swift and zero tolerance approach to antisemitism, will provide our Jewish communities with reassurance that the police are taking this threat seriously and will be there to protect them if need be.
As you know, Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK in its entirety. It is therefore a criminal offence for a person in the UK to:
  • belong to Hamas
  • invite support for Hamas
  • express support for Hamas whilst being reckless as to whether the expression will encourage support of it
  • arrange a meeting in support of Hamas
  • wear clothing or carry articles in public which arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of Hamas or
  • publish an image of an article such as a flag or logo in the same circumstances
At a time when Hamas terrorists are massacring civilians and taking the most vulnerable (including the elderly, women, and children) hostage, we can all recognise the harrowing effect that displays of their logos and flags can have on communities. I therefore ask that your police forces are alert and ready to respond to any potential offences.
Of course, it is not just explicit pro-Hamas symbols and chants that are cause for concern. I would encourage police to consider whether chants such as “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” should be understood as an expression of a violent desire to see Israel erased from the world, and whether its use in certain contexts may amount to a racially aggravated section 5 public order offence.
I would encourage police to give similar consideration to the presence of symbols such as swastikas at anti-Israel demonstrations. Context is crucial. Behaviours that are legitimate in some circumstances, for example the waving of a Palestinian flag, may not be legitimate such as when intended to glorify acts of terrorism. Nor is it acceptable to drive through Jewish neighbourhoods, or single out Jewish members of the public, to aggressively chant or wave pro-Palestinian symbols at. Where harassment is identified, I would encourage the police to take swift and appropriate enforcement action.
I encourage all Chief Officers to ensure that any protests which could exacerbate community tensions by way of offensive placards, chants, or behaviours that could be construed as incitement or harassment, have a strong police presence to ensure perpetrators are appropriately dealt with, and that communities feel protected. Decisions on arrests are rightly an operational matter for the police, in line with the duty to keep the peace, to protect communities, and to prevent the commission of offences. However, I would urge you to ensure your forces use all available powers to prevent disorder and distress to our communities, and that your officers will act if there are any incidents that stray into criminality.
I have also been absolutely clear that online offending is as serious as offline offending. You will be aware that we have robust legislation in place to deal with terrorist content online, as well as threatening and abusive behaviour or behaviour which is intended or likely to stir up hatred. I urge you to ensure that this continues to be taken into consideration in the upcoming days and that any reports of online offending are dealt with promptly.
I expect online referral units to respond swiftly to any content that breaks the law. In particular, I expect the CT Internet Referral Unit to monitor the situation and respond quickly to any online content that breaches the thresholds for terrorism legislation (TACT), working with tech companies to ensure its removal. I similarly expect the Online Hate Crime Hub to respond to any reports of online content that contravenes hate crime legislation to ensure the perpetrators can be brought to justice.
There can be no place for antisemitism or glorification of terrorism on the streets of Britain. I therefore expect the police to use the full force of the law against displays of support for Hamas, other proscribed terrorist groups or attempts to harass and intimidate British Jews.
Ensuring that there are heavy criminal consequences for any perpetrators is the best way to deter future offending and ensure the confidence and safety of our Jewish communities.
Yours sincerely,
Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP
But it is still legal to say that Braverman is

On second thoughts, that's a bit provocative. So you can fill in the blank space yourselves.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,097
Faversham
As a Jew and a supporter of Palestinian rights I have avoided the main thread. But this piece of Braverman suggests we can not show support for Palestinians in any noticeable way or face prosecution. I feel I could do this without being a threat to Britain's Jewish community - but apparently not. It's like being in the Labour party all over again.
Come off it.

You sound like my middle brother (who is so left wing and hates Starmer so much that he would rather have a tory government :ohmy: ).

That's like dealing with tight underpants by cutting your bollocks off.
 


Official Old Man

Uckfield Seagull
Aug 27, 2011
9,095
Brighton
I've tried to keep up to date regarding the war and how it all started years ago, but it is just too complicated for me to understand.
Invading Israel, as Hamas did, and the slaughter of 100's of inocent people is just sickening. But is the bombing of Gaza and the slaughter of inocent people on the other side just as sickening? And we are all waiting now for a mass invasion of Gaza with the press on the ground filming it all. So many deaths for what? It would seem Israel have one aim to completely eliminate Gaza.
 




Wozza

Custom title
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
24,372
Minteh Wonderland
I've tried to keep up to date regarding the war and how it all started years ago, but it is just too complicated for me to understand.
Invading Israel, as Hamas did, and the slaughter of 100's of inocent people is just sickening. But is the bombing of Gaza and the slaughter of inocent people on the other side just as sickening? And we are all waiting now for a mass invasion of Gaza with the press on the ground filming it all. So many deaths for what? It would seem Israel have one aim to completely eliminate Gaza.
A few years old but not much has changed…

 


Peacehaven Wild Kids

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2022
3,389
The Avenue then Maloncho
Just to clarify my personal position, as to be honest I don’t want to fall out anymore posters on here.
Yes, I am saddened by the plight of the Palestinian people,
no, I am not a supporter of Hamas nor am I a terrorist sympathiser,
The bombing of the music festival was wrong and horrific,
I have no hatred of Jewish/Israeli people.
I dislike the Israeli Government and believe they are war mongers,
I am not Anti-Semitic and get quite annoyed by anyone using this term towards anyone that simply criticises the Israeli Government
IMG_2409.jpeg

Most of all I want there to be peace
 


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