[Football] Leicester in 2 weeks

[dazzer6666]

I have just replied to PB with a link to this thread and just said please read for fan feedback. As always I was polite as PB has got most things right and his engagement with fans on email is terrific. But he has this one wrong, according to the vast majority of fans on here and ones I’ve spoken to. So let’s hope for change.

Funny thing is, most who are so against this like myself GIVE their tickets away if they can’t make it and REFUSE the offer of money. It’s basically those who want to see bums on seats and loud support to help the team, and those who want random friends to experience a match for free. It’s not even through selfish glasses whatsoever.

Likewise……..the empty seats is the worst thing and looks really poor for the club - the numbers are awful atm. I’ll have one for Leicester as I have no means of transferring it to anyone else - I don’t have any F&F that aren’t STHs, and asking someone to join up for what is likely to be one game per season just isn’t on.

He has a really simple solution he could implement……for example allowing STHs paying the £20 sharing fee to transfer tickets match-by-match (limited number per season as per upgrades for example ?), or allowing a ST to be upgraded to a normal matchday price ticket.

Maybe we should have a list of Albion+ NSC members on a thread that can pick up available STs from other NSC members………?

 

[n1 gull]

I have just replied to PB with a link to this thread and just said please read for fan feedback. As always I was polite as PB has got most things right and his engagement with fans on email is terrific. But he has this one wrong, according to the vast majority of fans on here and ones I’ve spoken to. So let’s hope for change.

Funny thing is, most who are so against this like myself GIVE their tickets away if they can’t make it and REFUSE the offer of money. It’s basically those who want to see bums on seats and loud support to help the team, and those who want random friends to experience a match for free. It’s not even through selfish glasses whatsoever.

I agree 100% I never take money but want friends or family to experience going to see the Albion.
For us fans who experienced the Withdean years increasing the fanbase seems like a no brainer.
It's really dispiriting seeing thousands of empty seats that could be filled with potential supporters and people just enjoying watching their local team

 

[Sheebo]

I’m sure PB won’t mind me passing on the exchanges via email so everyone can see where the club are coming from. Not changed my opinion but worth reading:

Original response:

Thank you for your email and opinions - you probably wont be surprised to hear, we don’t agree with them!

I will explain why as like a small number of other fans, you may have misunderstood the reasons behind the changes we have made, or the benefits they bring to the majority of fans. Unfortunately, you are also comparing apples with pears when you talk about the policies of other clubs. Again, I will explain why later on.

Firstly, the unauthorised transfer of season or match tickets contravenes the club’s terms and conditions. It is also a criminal offence. This is why we have spent the 10 years since the Amex opened advising against it, and in a COVID environment, “turning a blind eye” isn’t an option for any club.

Secondly, the Government’s COVID-related measures for major events also require us to use digital ticketing as far as is possible, hence the decision we have made to eliminate season ticket cards and paper-based tickets. We wont be going back to this form of ticketing post COVID.

Thirdly, to support fans through a period where some older, more vulnerable or more nervous fans may be reluctant or unable to attend matches for a while longer, but who do not wish to lose loyalty points or give up their seat, we have added flexibility so that tickets can be shared with nominated friends and family who are club members.

Fourthly, the club has a responsibility to protect the right of club members to access the best available seats in the stadium if season ticket holders cannot attend - this is not achieved through unofficial ticket transfers as tickets often go to those with little or no affiliation to the club, and sometimes to banned or visiting supporters.

Far from being some kind of “cash grab” by the club, as you seem to imply, season ticket holders receive a substantial discount for the sole right to use the ticket 19 times a season. That season ticket discount is simply not transferable to someone who may or may not have a club affiliation.

Furthermore, the club is reducing its market to sell match tickets which do not carry a discount and provide higher revenues to the club - and increasing the market for club members to attend, thereby INCREASING the chances of there being more bums on seats not decreasing the chances!

One club membership fee of £28 could, with the support of a generous season ticket holding family member or friend who does not wish to recompensed for sharing their season ticket on occasions, be more than paid for in one match where a season ticket is transferred. Hardly a huge ask!

You may not have seen the club last week announced the largest number of season ticket holders (and 1901 members) in the club’s entire history, partly as a result of the added flexibility now provided to season tickets. Indeed, the feedback from the vast majority of season ticket holders and club members has been extremely positive.

It would have been extremely short sighted of the club not to recognise the potential ongoing challenges of COVID, and provide help to season ticket holders to legitimise the transfer of their season ticket holders. It would also have been short sighted to allow such transfers to take place without recoding details of who was attending our matches in case of a significant COVID outbreak at our stadium.

In terms of comparing our new policy to other clubs, it’s important to recognise that some clubs will already “price in” the transferability of season tickets (for example, compare the average season ticket prices at Chelsea and Tottenham to ours), and each club will provide a different package of benefits to season ticket holders.

Ours includes subsidised local travel (not provided by Chelsea or Spurs), an interest and fee free season ticket payment plan (many big clubs charge for this facility), free WiFi, access to a free to enter supporters bar (few offer this), and other club benefits that are season ticket inclusive. As I say, you have compared apples with pears.

Finally, please be reassured that every club has empty seats in August due to holidays and other competing summer interests, and for some even more so in a COVID environment. Ironically, our season ticket no shows were in line with previous August fixtures, almost certainly because of the increased value of season ticket transferability!


Today’s emails:
Me
I’m sure you monitor supporter opinions Paul and do what you feel is better. But as per my initial points, the vast majority aren’t happy with the costs involved with passing a ticket on and here’s the evidence (notice the thumbs for certain comments):

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?390035-Leicester-in-2-weeks

To give your season ticket away (usually for free) is often to someone who won’t pay £40 for the match - so the club doesnt lose out. In fact the club gains as the supporter may like it and be inclined to go more by buying tickets. They’ll spend money there in the shop or catering my for sure too. I just think the policy needs a rethink and it seems the huge majority of fans do. We / you / the board get the majority of things right - this one really isn’t.

Please just read it and take it on board. No need to discuss it me again as you obviously don’t agree etc yet but just think it’s an issue that needs to change

Him
Unfortunately, the “vast majority” of our supporters are not represented on social media so this isn’t the best guide to supporter opinion, and I’m afraid we don’t ever make decisions based on social media opinions.

Furthermore, as has already been explained to you, and had been publicised dozens of times by the club in the past decade, passing tickets on is a breach of the club’s terms and conditions - and also the law. It’s why we have advised against it.

In a COVID environment, the move to digital ticketing was mandated by Government and Premier League to assist football clubs ensure, as best they can, a complete record of exactly who is in the stadium at any one time.

Finally, as we have also explained, any breaches to COVID policies could see Government reducing stadium capacities again. I am very sure the vast majority of supporters would want us to do all we can to avoid that.

Best wishes, Paul

Me
Well I’d suggest the vast majority don’t like it or won’t pay the £45 if it’s a transfer just for a game etc. Yes, I understand the need to know who’s in the seat and also understand it’s easy to reassign the seat and tell the club who’s in the seat just like Spurs do (for free). I’ve literally heard reps of the club (possibly even yourself) at supporter club meetings say they ‘turn a blind eye’ to passing a season ticket on before - that’s 100% the case or was the case as all clubs do. I just think the club are actually losing out by this scheme - not making more money as I guess the idea is. I urge you to monitor it and rethink - maybe do a survey on it to all season ticket holders if you don’t think north stand chat is a real view of supporters. We’ve got this wrong I’m afraid, no doubt in my mind and many others I’ve spoke to. I think it needs a rethink amongst those in charge ASAP.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Well, there you go. ST no shows in line with Augusts in previous seasons. That pulls the rug from under the argument against ST sharing. He makes similar points to those being made by a few of us on here. He is paid big bucks to make these decisions and is not going to be deterred by a handful of posters online making the same points over and over again. Of course it is fine to disagree but to claim he has got it wrong is in itself wrong. Let’s just let him get on with his job.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

The club will, I’m sure, assess costs/benefits of approach. From my side, I intend to attend games but my STH seat will be empty if I don’t. Talking to people over the weekend (non NSCers), the general thought was, rightly or wrongly, the club are beginning to take the Michael.

 

[amexer]

Typical Barber reply. Never wrong. Hopefully I am wrong but could show up in next seasons ST renewals. Funny they cant turn a blind eye to ticket passing but do so to many supporters including all away standing throughout game. I went to test match yesterday. My son dropped out and took a friend instead. No problem.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The club will, I’m sure, assess costs/benefits of approach. From my side, I intend to attend games but my STH seat will be empty if I don’t. Talking to people over the weekend (non NSCers), the general thought was, rightly or wrongly, the club are beginning to take the Michael.[/QUOTE]

They are ok with the ST prize freeze though ?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Typical Barber reply. Never wrong. Hopefully I am wrong but could show up in next seasons ST renewals. Funny they cant turn a blind eye to ticket passing but do so to many supporters including all away standing throughout game. I went to test match yesterday. My son dropped out and took a friend instead. No problem.

Hang on. You said that you had the Albion’s best interests at heart and were concerned about empty seats. He has set your mind at rest on that score so we can move on, can’t we ?

 

[chaileyjem]

You'll be able to put questions direct to Paul Barber, Tony Bloom (and Graham) about ticket sharing and/or anything else at the fans forum on Radio Sussex this Wednesday at 8pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09t8d6w

 

[zefarelly]

I have emailed mr Barber re this. He doesn’t agree obviously. But I know the huge majority of fans think it’s pointless and silly. He also pointed to the travel subsidy we give when I pointed out no other prem clubs are charging for this. But not everyone uses the travel subsidy.

OP - yes of course there’s a point in listing them - just do it and see? I did my 3 for Everton but it was literally 100 or so short of selling out and they didn’t open the exchange - frustrating. But more frustrating I couldn’t give them away for FREE like I normally would - to people who wouldn’t go and spend £40 per ticket with the club - so not robbing the club of any money either - they may realise next season and drop this whole bullshit thing and just let people pass on as they always have.

I've been to games using others ST's in recent years. never had a problem

Does seem the club are doing there best to alienate older/old school supporters. particularly those of us who don't want ST's because frankly for decades we never needed them.

 

[Sheebo]

Well, there you go. ST no shows in line with Augusts in previous seasons. That pulls the rug from under the argument against ST sharing. He makes similar points to those being made by a few of us on here. He is paid big bucks to make these decisions and is not going to be deterred by a handful of posters online making the same points over and over again. Of course it is fine to disagree but to claim he has got it wrong is in itself wrong. Let’s just let him get on with his job.

Absolute rubbish - no proof and also bet it’s rounded up to the nearest thousand if true. Your opinion on this is seen as utter rubbish by many - almost elitist ‘I have lots of money’ by others.

 

[tronnogull]

With just a couple of exceptions, this thread is ( understandably ) comprised of like minded people agreeing with each other. It may possibly be true that the ' vast majority ' of Albion fans are opposed to the club's approach but it may also be possible that the silent majority who don't mind this approach have no reason to enter into the debate. Or, aren't on NSC.

For my part, I pay 20 quid a year for the right to legally transfer my ticket. I don't mind that since I have always worried about relying on the club turning a blind eye to illegal transfers. If any issue were to come up when I passed my ticket on then I was at risk of losing my season ticket entirely.

For F&F who are already Myalbion+ members, they get my ticket at no cost to them. For F&F who have to join MyAlbion+, they get their first ticket for less than the cost they would otherwise pay. And any future ones for no cost. ( Like others, I don't ask for any payment to myself for passing on the ticket ). Even the total cost for one ticket is less than an adult ticket for a cat A game in WSU. My brother just purchased one for the Man City game and it was 52 quid !

Of course people's opinions on this will vary depending on their personal circumstances. But I'm not sure that it is clearly a poor policy which the majority of STH would oppose.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Absolute rubbish - no proof and also bet it’s rounded up to the nearest thousand if true. Your opinion on this is seen as utter rubbish by many - almost elitist ‘I have lots of money’ by others.

You are sending e mails to the club claiming widespread fan discontent on this issue but you don’t speak for all of us. You are so convinced you are right that you are calling the club Chief Executive a liar ? This despite you being in possession of none of the facts. Now I am elitist for disagreeing with you. Blimey.

 

[Ken Newbury]

With just a couple of exceptions, this thread is ( understandably ) comprised of like minded people agreeing with each other. It may possibly be true that the ' vast majority ' of Albion fans are opposed to the club's approach but it may also be possible that the silent majority who don't mind this approach have no reason to enter into the debate. Or, aren't on NSC.

For my part, I pay 20 quid a year for the right to legally transfer my ticket. I don't mind that since I have always worried about relying on the club turning a blind eye to illegal transfers. If any issue were to come up when I passed my ticket on then I was at risk of losing my season ticket entirely.

For F&F who are already Myalbion+ members, they get my ticket at no cost to them. For F&F who have to join MyAlbion+, they get their first ticket for less than the cost they would otherwise pay. And any future ones for no cost. ( Like others, I don't ask for any payment to myself for passing on the ticket ). Even the total cost for one ticket is less than an adult ticket for a cat A game in WSU. My brother just purchased one for the Man City game and it was 52 quid !

Of course people's opinions on this will vary depending on their personal circumstances. But I'm not sure that it is clearly a poor policy which the majority of STH would oppose.

I'm in complete agreement with this and I 100% support the club's stance. I've paid my £20 and can now pass my ticket for free to MyAlbion+ members. There was one other person who wants my ticket if I can't make it and they have just happily paid £25 to be a member and have my ticket for free. It's an excellent approach by the club and I hope it continues next year.

 

[Sheebo]

You are sending e mails to the club claiming widespread fan discontent on this issue but you don’t speak for all of us. You are so convinced you are right that you are calling the club Chief Executive a liar ? This despite you being in possession of none of the facts. Now I am elitist for disagreeing with you. Blimey.

Well to me it’s pretty obvious that having to pay £45 for something that was free for 10 years to do the same thing is gonna be a bit of an issue for most. And I’ve spoke to dozens of fans and they all say it’s silly and wrong and a piss take. The comments on thumbs on here suggest it also. So yes, my opinion / educated guess is I am completely right. I don’t think your views are empathetic and purely thinking of your situation - most of us who are of the old school loving the Albion just want to see every seat filled and as good an atmosphere as possible

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Well to me it’s pretty obvious that having to pay £45 for something that was free for 10 years to do the same thing is gonna be a bit of an issue for most. And I’ve spoke to dozens of fans and they all say it’s silly and wrong and a piss take. The comments on thumbs on here suggest it also. So yes, my opinion / educated guess is I am completely right. I don’t think your views are empathetic and purely thinking of your situation - most of us who are of the old school loving the Albion just want to see every seat filled and as good an atmosphere as possible

Well, that’s interesting because I also think my views on this subject tally with the Albion’s best interests. I also think that that those opposed are simply reluctant to let go of their unofficial ability to give away/sell tickets as they please, rather than thoughts for the club’s best interests. I have been watching the Albion since 1976 so don’t be so quick to dismiss my opinion as not ‘old school’ enough.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Well to me it’s pretty obvious that having to pay £45 for something that was free for 10 years to do the same thing is gonna be a bit of an issue for most. And I’ve spoke to dozens of fans and they all say it’s silly and wrong and a piss take. The comments on thumbs on here suggest it also. So yes, my opinion / educated guess is I am completely right. I don’t think your views are empathetic and purely thinking of your situation - most of us who are of the old school loving the Albion just want to see every seat filled and as good an atmosphere as possible

I think you are only really looking at it from the STH's point of view, and actually not from the position of the occasional fan. Of course sharing your ticket the old (illegal) way was the simplest solution, but that was always going to be stopped.

Here's an example from the other POV. We gave up my older lad's ST when he went away to Uni. A few years later, he's back with us, but now mostly playing on Saturday afternoons, so no sense buying a new ST. I've paid the £25 MyAlbion+ membership for him, which gives him the facility to accept transferred tickets, (and he gets some Albion TAT into the bargain). That really isn't a big outlay, and anyway not prepared to pay it can't be THAT bothered about going.

I've enough STH mates and acquaintances, that I think any game he can attend, we'll be able to pick up a transfer from someone who is away, offering them the usual £20 or whatever. From their POV, that very first transfer pays for the £20 upgrade to allow transfers, and every subsequent one is lost cash recouped.

 

[Sheebo]

I think you are only really looking at it from the STH's point of view, and actually not from the position of the occasional fan. Of course sharing your ticket the old (illegal) way was the simplest solution, but that was always going to be stopped.

Here's an example from the other POV. We gave up my older lad's ST when he went away to Uni. A few years later, he's back with us, but now mostly playing on Saturday afternoons, so no sense buying a new ST. I've paid the £25 MyAlbion+ membership for him, which gives him the facility to accept transferred tickets, (and he gets some Albion TAT into the bargain). That really isn't a big outlay, and anyway not prepared to pay it can't be THAT bothered about going.

I've enough STH mates and acquaintances, that I think any game he can attend, we'll be able to pick up a transfer from someone who is away, offering them the usual £20 or whatever. From their POV, that very first transfer pays for the £20 upgrade to allow transfers, and every subsequent one is lost cash recouped.

Yeh that isn’t too much of a ball ache. But again it was free to do exactly the same thing before. Yes ‘illegal’ but not really in the sense every club has fans that do it and the club themselves are on record as ‘happy to turn a blind eye’. I just want to see every seat filled and think others do and this new scheme prevents that in almost every game except possibly the big 6 ones.

 

[Sheebo]

Well, that’s interesting because I also think my views on this subject tally with the Albion’s best interests. I also think that that those opposed are simply reluctant to let go of their unofficial ability to give away/sell tickets as they please, rather than thoughts for the club’s best interests. I have been watching the Albion since 1976 so don’t be so quick to dismiss my opinion as not ‘old school’ enough.

I didn’t suggest you weren’t an old time fan or give that as a reason to dismiss your views. I said MOST of us who are old school supporters want to see every seat filled however that may be - and the ability to give away tickets that are already paid for seems to me to be the best way and easiest way to achieve that.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I didn’t suggest you weren’t an old time fan or give that as a reason to dismiss your views. I said MOST of us who are old school supporters want to see every seat filled however that may be - and the ability to give away tickets that are already paid for seems to me to be the best way and easiest way to achieve that.

Then you should be reassured by Barber’s clarification that ST no shows are in line with this time of year in previous seasons. That suggests to me that most people who used to pass on their tickets privately are now using the ST sharing scheme and are not leaving their seats empty. Some will but that is not affecting the actual attendance so there will be little effect on atmosphere, bar sales or any of the other predictions made on this thread.