[Finance] Legal advice - Divorced dad

[GingerBeerMan]

Your ex sounds like a piece of work. Sorry.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Having slept on it, I think I know the way forward.
Which is to sit down with my ex and workout precisely what is required and how best to divide the costs.
If she wants to play hardball and try and stick me with an unreasonable share of it, then I will seek legal advice,

Always useful to get some considered responses from people who aren't emotionally involved.
So thanks for all responses.

Hmm…from what youve said her idea of “how best” will be more in her interests than yours. Have those kind of negotiations ever gone your way?
You should get proper advice before you have the conversation. Particularly if your responsibilities to pay for your daughter‘s education are already over.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Having slept on it, I think I know the way forward.
Which is to sit down with my ex and workout precisely what is required and how best to divide the costs.
If she wants to play hardball and try and stick me with an unreasonable share of it, then I will seek legal advice,

Always useful to get some considered responses from people who aren't emotionally involved.
So thanks for all responses.

Good luck old boy, the NSC family are behind you

 

[Elbow750]

Is your Daughter in Halls of Residence? As a first year she should have the offer of that (if not why not?) and rent including bills will be set. She should use some of her student loan to cover this and your maintenance can top up the rest. Of course if she turned down Halls because she was expecting to live with her mother then that is something to put into the equation. Also what does your daughter say about this?

As a parent you will want to continue helping her whilst at Uni with reasonable expenses. The problem with London is the rents in year 2 and 3 are high, as we found out when my daughter was at Uni in London. But she eventually found a nice flat share in Kentish Town at £675 a month (plus bills). So its all about what's reasonable.

Best of luck.

PS I've had 3 kids go through Uni. We always paid for their food basic clothing and train fares home etc but they paid for their booze, socializing and fashion trainers. It worked very well.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Hmm…from what youve said her idea of “how best” will be more in her interests than yours. Have those kind of negotiations ever gone your way?
You should get proper advice before you have the conversation. Particularly if your responsibilities to pay for your daughter‘s education are already over.

Yeah agree with your points - but I'm not negotiating on this. I have thought it through and know what my position is on this.
My legal responsibilities (agreed in our divorce) is to carry on paying maintenance until Nov 2024.

My Divorce was expensive because we didn't talk the situation through sensibly first and ended up fighting over it through lawyers instead.
I won't make that mistake again.
Firstly I need to get to a position where we aren't pointing fingers at each other.

I know how much extra I can afford and also be ok about contributing.
If she wants more than that and won't be reasonable, then I'll take proper advice and see what my options are.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Yeah agree with your points - but I'm not negotiating on this. I have thought it through and know what my position is on this.
My legal responsibilities (agreed in our divorce) is to carry on paying maintenance until Nov 2024.

My Divorce was expensive because we didn't talk the situation through sensibly first and ended up fighting over it through lawyers instead.
I won't make that mistake again.
Firstly I need to get to a position where we aren't pointing fingers at each other.

I know how much extra I can afford and also be ok about contributing.
If she wants more than that and won't be reasonable, then I'll take proper advice and see what my options are.

You sound like a reasonable guy. I’d be careful that doesn’t count against you. Good luck with it all, and the NSC masses are always here.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Is your Daughter in Halls of Residence? As a first year she should have the offer of that (if not why not?) and rent including bills will be set. She should use some of her student loan to cover this and your maintenance can top up the rest. Of course if she turned down Halls because she was expecting to live with her mother then that is something to put into the equation. Also what does your daughter say about this?

As a parent you will want to continue helping her whilst at Uni with reasonable expenses. The problem with London is the rents in year 2 and 3 are high, as we found out when my daughter was at Uni in London. But she eventually found a nice flat share in Kentish Town at £675 a month (plus bills). So its all about what's reasonable.

Best of luck.

PS I've had 3 kids go through Uni. We always paid for their food basic clothing and train fares home etc but they paid for their booze, socializing and fashion trainers. It worked very well.

As you guessed - she didn't apply for halls of residence as the plan was she would stay at the house for the first 2 years - which became 1 year and now is for the next 3 weeks.

As it stands, my ex is telling me our daughter will be homeless in 3 weeks and it's up to me to sort it out.
This is a typical button pressing exercise for her and is her preferred method.

It's possible that the reality is very different and my ex is thinking about buying a flat for my daughter and her friend to rent from her and is looking for a contribution from me to cover a rented place in the short term and then cover any additional mortgage in the longer term.
My daughter thought that was the original plan, but the plan has been changing weekly. She is naturally pretty stressed about the situation and me and the ex going through Divorce II, isn't in anyone's best interest.

Time for the grown-ups to be grown-ups and talk to each other.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Wonder whether anyone can give me some sensible advice

I'm a divorcee.
Clean break divorce, finalised 12 years ago when the kids were small.
Terms of the divorce were that I would pay maintenance until the kids finished education.
The wife kept the house while we were separated and then sold up when we divorced because she was re-marrying and they bought a house together.
She got 60% of the profit from the sale as she was the "Primary parent" but I still had the kids 3 nights a week, as we both carried on living in South London.

I bought a house too and moved in with my partner and step-daughter.
Kids stayed with us 3 nights a week until they hit older teenage years and had their own plans at weekends.

She kicked my Autistic son out at 19 and he moved in with us for a while ( I stopped paying maintenance) He has since moved out (now 21)
I have restarted paying half of my maintenance directly to my daughter.

My Daughter is just starting Uni and my ex has decided to sell up and move away from the area.
My ex has emailed me today saying that I now need to pay half of Katie's rent as she has nowhere to live.
I can't afford that so I have said she can move in with me as the only viable option. My partner isn't particularly impressed with that idea but understands.

Although it's not relevant, my ex has no real money issues - she bought an 8-bedroom sea-front house in Littlehampton 18 months ago and is about to sell a 5-bedroom house in London.
I have no idea how much of it is mortgage and how much is profit, but the fact they could own both houses at the same time, leads me to believe they are comfortably off.

In my eyes, my ex is breaching the terms of our divorce. i.e provide a family home for the kids until they finished education.
She was supposed to be providing a family home for the kids, but instead she has kicked them both out and sold the house for a profit.
My daughter doesn't know whether she is coming or going.
The plan was originally that my ex was going to buy a flat for my daughter and her friend to rent from her, but that plan appears to be up in the air now.

I was thinking of asking her for the 10% extra she got from the sale of the family home, to help fund rent on a flat for a couple of years for my daughter.
That feels like the morally right solution to this to me, but I'm way too close to it.

Does anyone know where I stand legally?
My guess is not great.

You daughter is now an adult so her higher education and accommodation are her responsibility. If your ex is prepared to pay half the costs this is better than nothing. If this puts you in financial difficulty then you should discuss this with your ex, keeping in mind that nobody 'owes' anybody anything anymore.

I will refrain from commenting on the apparent ruthlessness of your ex.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Get legal advice but I thought it usual for the deal to be in respect of ordinary education up to and including 6th form (ie age 18) and not further education which is legally the responsibility of the adult student. Otherwise your daughter could forever be taking degrees, never work, and you would be paying throughout your lifetime.
good luck sorting it out.

I'm not sure that is true. All student loans are means tested against the family income. It's a disguised policy but short falls are expected to be met by the parents. If a second child goes to Uni at the same time as a first, you're access to loan is further reduced.

Martin Lewis campaigns regularly on this and his opinion it's an outrage the way university funding now works.

 

[Littlemo]

As you guessed - she didn't apply for halls of residence as the plan was she would stay at the house for the first 2 years - which became 1 year and now is for the next 3 weeks.

As it stands, my ex is telling me our daughter will be homeless in 3 weeks and it's up to me to sort it out.
This is a typical button pressing exercise for her and is her preferred method.

It's possible that the reality is very different and my ex is thinking about buying a flat for my daughter and her friend to rent from her and is looking for a contribution from me to cover a rented place in the short term and then cover any additional mortgage in the longer term.
My daughter thought that was the original plan, but the plan has been changing weekly. She is naturally pretty stressed about the situation and me and the ex going through Divorce II, isn't in anyone's best interest.

Time for the grown-ups to be grown-ups and talk to each other.

She does not sound like a woman who will sit down and talk this through fairly with you.

Get a lawyer.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I'm not sure that is true. All student loans are means tested against the family income. It's a disguised policy but short falls are expected to be met by the parents. If a second child goes to Uni at the same time as a first, you're access to loan is further reduced.

Martin Lewis campaigns regularly on this and his opinion it's an outrage the way university funding now works.

Couldn't agree more - My Daughter will have a £45k debt after finishing her degree, which will count against her when looking to get a mortgage. It's a terrible system.
Personally I don't see the point of University degrees and I'm sure the next generation will be priced out of it all together.

 

[Randy McNob]

I had a clean break divorce, with similar conditions, and it was clearly written in the agreement that her entitlement ends if she re-marries.

Not sure if that helps?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

She does not sound like a woman who will sit down and talk this through fairly with you.

Get a lawyer.

I'm not sure I need one.
If I was getting divorced, then certainly I would. But I've done that already and just irritated that my ex is trying to change the terms now she is having to pay out.
She can't force me into anything - It's possible/likely that she will leave my daughter with no other option than to move in with me.
Which isn't a terrible position.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I had a clean break divorce, with similar conditions, and it was clearly written in the agreement that her entitlement ends if she re-marries.

Not sure if that helps?

No that wasn't written in - do you have kids with her?
I was advised that the courts would challenge that as the money is for the children's welfare not hers.

And in fairness I knew she was re-marrying.
she had to to sell the family home to release my equity so I could buy a home too.
So it was a fair split in that regard.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Couldn't agree more - My Daughter will have a £45k debt after finishing her degree, which will count against her when looking to get a mortgage. It's a terrible system.
Personally I don't see the point of University degrees and I'm sure the next generation will be priced out of it all together.

The tricky thing for you is that you're daughter's access to a maintenance loan will be means tested against your ex's income. So if that excludes a certain amount of funding for which parents are expected to make up the shortfall, your 'half' will be against your ex's means testing, not your own. So your affordability is different to that of your ex.

I think you are doing the right thing as in the middle of this is your daughter's welfare and future. Opening a line of communication is always the right way to go.

All these maintenance loans, halls of residence etc. are all applied for 9-12 months in advance of starting the course - it sounds like the rug has been pulled out from what your daughter was expecting to happen. I guess you have to find out what funding has been applied for and get onto that aspect because clearly not your fault if it has got to this point and your ex hasn't applied for all the potential help your daughter could recieve.

 

[Randy McNob]

No that wasn't written in - do you have kids with her?
I was advised that the courts would challenge that as the money is for the children's welfare not hers.

And in fairness I knew she was re-marrying.
she had to to sell the family home to release my equity so I could buy a home too.
So it was a fair split in that regard.

Yeah, 1 kid, who is now 21 but was 15 when divorced. Suppose I was lucky she didn't want to go to Uni but I still supported her financially and then some

 

[Littlemo]

I'm not sure I need one.
If I was getting divorced, then certainly I would. But I've done that already and just irritated that my ex is trying to change the terms now she is having to pay out.
She can't force me into anything - It's possible/likely that she will leave my daughter with no other option than to move in with me.
Which isn't a terrible position.

If you believe the terms of the divorce are being changed, or not adhered to, that’s why you need the lawyer - to help enforce them and to know what your rights are and what your daughters rights are here, because it’s her life that’s being effected the most with this change.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

Dont get legal advise - they will promise you the earth and then bleed you dry. I dont understand why you would necessarily need to pay for your daughter's accommodation if she's at uni. The 'normal' practice is for her to get a student loan to cover that.

 

[Bozza]

The tricky thing for you is that you're daughter's access to a maintenance loan will be means tested against your ex's income. So if that excludes a certain amount of funding for which parents are expected to make up the shortfall, your 'half' will be against your ex's means testing, not your own. So your affordability is different to that of your ex.

I think you are doing the right thing as in the middle of this is your daughter's welfare and future. Opening a line of communication is always the right way to go.

All these maintenance loans, halls of residence etc. are all applied for 9-12 months in advance of starting the course - it sounds like the rug has been pulled out from what your daughter was expecting to happen. I guess you have to find out what funding has been applied for and get onto that aspect because clearly not your fault if it has got to this point and your ex hasn't applied for all the potential help your daughter could recieve.

Correct.

My daughter is in the second year of her law degree, and she receives the minimum maintenance loan of c£4,400 due to the income of my ex-wife and her now husband. This doesn't come close to covering her living expenses. Halls costs exceeded that in her first year and now, in her second year, her share of rent for a house is well over £6,000 for the year. She obviously needs to be able to eat etc and, ideally, have a bit of fun too.

My ex and I had what I thought was a "grown-up conversation" about how we both supported our daughter through her university years but somehow I seem to be on the hook for it all.

And that's the rub. If you decide to play hardball, as I've considered on more than one occasion, there's only one person who will suffer and that's your daughter. She's caught in the middle, trying to further herself at university, and will have a whole heap of stress wondering how she'll be able to pay for everything whilst you and your ex possibly wait to see who blinks first.

I'm not sure there's any merit in seeking legal advice. Neither you nor your wife will have any obligation to support your daughter now, it comes down to what you can do, and want to do. It would be better to give the money to your daughter for rent and food etc than paying a solicitor.

 

[Bozza]

Dont get legal advise - they will promise you the earth and then bleed you dry. I dont understand why you would necessarily need to pay for your daughter's accommodation if she's at uni. The 'normal' practice is for her to get a student loan to cover that.

As above, the maintenance loan would not come close to covering basic living expenses if the parents concerned - in this case ex-wife and husband - are considered "wealthy" enough, via means testing, to lead to a minimal loan being available.

There's no such thing as an additional and optional student loan as was the case back when I was at university. So, if the maintenance loan isn't enough and parents are unwilling/unable to make up the shortfall, then the student is in quite a sticky position and very possibly unable to attend university.