[Football] Lee Carsley - The National Anthem.

[LamieRobertson]

Sorry, no. Apologies!

lol….no need to apologise

 

[LamieRobertson]

Edited

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Harry I’m going to duck that on here because it will derail the thread (imo) and you are right to say that it’s best not to……save it for that post match drink

I'll delete the post now

 

[LamieRobertson]

I'll delete the post now

As I have

 

[Lenny Rider]

The only sensible option, getting stick off sections of the UK media is one thing, an Irish national singing the British National Anthem on TV in Dublin would attract attention from the kind of people you wouldn’t want to go anywhere near.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

If there's one thing capable of equaling the predictable 'outrage' at Carsley not singing the national anthem it's the equally predictable alternate response of people falling over themselves to say how much of a shit they don't give about it and how much they don't care about supporting England.

I wonder if both sides of the coin are a very English attitude, or if one, or none, are? I think that's a more interesting question/debate than the tedious nationalism one that threads like these are designed to inspire.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I don't suppose Fabio or Sven sang the England national anthem either but I may be wrong.

Purely as a matter of interest maybe to yourself I had read a report to say Sven did ….shrug

 

[BadFish]

This.

Carsley never sang the Irish National Anthem all the years he played for Ireland nor the English National Anthem when he was coaching the U21s.

Carsley has a dual Irish/British nationality, so for that reason alone, would likely find singing the National Anthem of either Country problematic. Even more so in Dublin - I suspect Rice and Grealish will get some stick from the Irish fans if they do sing the English National Anthem this evening.

People need to stop conflating English football with nationalism or monarchism and suggesting that if you subscribe to neither, then you can’t be a genuine England fan or fit to be the manager of the squad.

It’s just competitive football at a national level ffs not a Civil War enactment and of little interest tbh to vast numbers of English League Club supporters.

Edit - should also add that ‘England’ hasn’t had a King since 1707.

God hasn't done a great job of saving him then.

Maybe not enough people sung about it.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Would prefer the head coach/manager of the England national team to be English…..

I also feel they should sing the national anthem.

Really don’t care if I’m in the minority, it’s how I feel….

That said, I don’t like international breaks and won’t be watching.

 

[Han Solo]

Is the the baldest England manager of all time btw?

 

[lawros left foot]

If there's one thing capable of equaling the predictable 'outrage' at Carsley not singing the national anthem it's the equally predictable alternate response of people falling over themselves to say how much of a shit they don't give about it and how much they don't care about supporting England.

I wonder if both sides of the coin are a very English attitude, or if one, or none, are? I think that's a more interesting question/debate than the tedious nationalism one that threads like these are designed to inspire.

This thread wasn’t designed to inspire nationalism.

I’m definitely not a nationalist,it was more to discuss the right wing press and their obsession with our country’s NA.
I find it objectionable that, I, as a republican socialist, should be deemed to be some kind of 5th columnist traitor because I disagree with the ‘born to rule’ doctrine of this country, and the right wing narrative of our national press, who’s owners are largely non doms who pay no tax in this country.
Patriotism comes in many forms, paying your fair share of tax, should be the benchmark .

I also support our national sports teams, although it has largely been a thankless task over the last 50 years.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

This thread wasn’t designed to inspire nationalism.

I’m definitely not a nationalist,it was more to discuss the right wing press and their obsession with our country’s NA.
I find it objectionable that, I, as a republican socialist, should be deemed to be some kind of 5th columnist traitor because I disagree with the ‘born to rule’ doctrine of this country, and the right wing narrative of our national press, who’s owners are largely non doms who pay no tax in this country.
Patriotism comes in many forms, paying your fair share of tax, should be the benchmark .

I also support our national sports teams, although it has largely been a thankless task over the last 50 years.

You've slightly misunderstood my post, probably due to my poor wording in it.

What I meant was that the opening post reads to me like a deliberate attempt to provoke a certain response around the idea of nationalism. We know that a few posters will get purple faced with rage at the idea of Carsley not singing the anthem but we also know that as many if not more people will use it as an opportunity to show their disdain for the anthem/the idea of supporting England.

It's something that has been done to death over the years and I find that to be tedious.

I feel that if you had started the thread with this post I'm replying to we might have got an interesting discussion going for a few pages before it fell into the inevitable NSC binfest. What constitutes patriotism? Is it a good or bad thing? Is the reluctance of many Englishmen/women to admit to any kind of positive national feeling only an English thing or is it prevalent in other nations/cultures?

Apologies if you thought I was calling you an ultra nationalist or indeed the opposite.

 

[Bald Head]

Tradition

(aka, some bullshit made up, probably in Victorian times, to fool the English that we weren't being ruled by Germans.
Pass the Saxe-Coburg and Gotha bag, Alice.)

Excellent post Harry.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Given Starmer is meeting Simon Harris in Dublin to discuss the UK - Ireland relationship reset it is probably a good thing the England interim manager and former Eire international Carsley has chosen not to sing. A wise decision.

 

[Bald Head]

I don't know if it has been covered in previous posts but did jack charlton sing the irish national anthem when he was manager of the republic ?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Don't care
Was he asked or did he bring it up?
Seems however seem an odd thing to say outright

 

[studio150]

All this fuss, and if he hadn't commented, virtually no one would have noticed the non-singing, or commented on it.

 

[lawros left foot]

All this fuss, and if he hadn't commented, virtually no one would have noticed the non-singing, or commented on it.

I think you underestimate the vitriol, and sheer stupidity of our National press.

 

[Eeyore]

If there's one thing capable of equaling the predictable 'outrage' at Carsley not singing the national anthem it's the equally predictable alternate response of people falling over themselves to say how much of a shit they don't give about it and how much they don't care about supporting England.

I wonder if both sides of the coin are a very English attitude, or if one, or none, are? I think that's a more interesting question/debate than the tedious nationalism one that threads like these are designed to inspire.

A lot of folk are in between. For me the obsession with national identity is bewildering. I feel it is a form of insecurity. We only get three score years and ten and I'm not going to spend it saluting a flag and submitting to inherited expectations of who I should be. I'm just going to live and enjoy who I am.

Conversely, I do support England, but not so much as I support Sussex and the Albion. Sussex is my natural identity, not one that was hoisted upon me. I love my county, not because I was told to, but because it came naturally. Interestingly, I was actually born in Surrey and first lived in Hampshire. I'm an immigrant.

So it is possible to be indifferent towards England without following the pastime of putting it down. I'm not into the identity stuff, but I think it's a splendid country. This national anthem stuff though, it's just an song that is nowhere near as good as a lot of others. The Sri Lankan anthem at the Test matches is a banger !

I would actually say that it's not a song of unity but one of obedience. So I get why a lot of folk are out. As for Lee Carsley, I just want to see him do a job for my chosen national team. I care not if he sings a homage to the King. The more I think about it, the more I start chuckling. It's so silly.

 

[Jim in the West]

Don't care
Was he asked or did he bring it up?
Seems however seem an odd thing to say outright

He was asked.

I'm not surprised Mail readers (and no doubt others of similar ilk) are frothing at the mouth....they need people to hate.
No doubt there's a high degree of correlation with those who were OUTRAGED at the tiny purple & blue St George's cross on our Euro24 shirts (and probably those who can't abide players taking the knee).