Lance Armstrong ends fight against doping charges part deux

[Stat Brother]

Well send that then. The guy needs to know that he is a ****.

I still don't feel relaxed, I might have to pop out, buy beer and diet pork scratchings, to get me through the night.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I was going to expand Teaboy's point still further.

The Governing bodies know what's going on, and are being very 'head in the sand' about it.
That needs to be challenged.
The obvious problem for them is being scared of what they might find.

The evidence of doping in Spain, against Spanish football, is massive.
It's all sat there in a Spanish court waiting to be processed, but it's being 'protected'.
UEFA and FIFA have done nothing, what's in it for them to find out Spanish footballers are as good as we think they are?

At some point that will come back to bite them on the arse.

Just for the hell of it I recently mailed The All England Club, The LTA & The ATP, asking how many tests were carried out at Wimbledon, and where I might find the information. Obviously I didn't get a reply, why should I.

There's a teeny-weeny voice in the back of my head that says Team Sky @ Le Tour were tested more times than all the tests carried out in SW19.

I can give you a full breakdown of who, on Sky, got what kind of test over a 3 week period.
But I can't tell you how many tests were carried out in Tennis, Football, Rugby, Golf, Athletics, and on, and on, and on.

So here s the conondrum, Lance got away with it because initially the need for cleanliness in the sport after the Festina affair and the fact that US Postal were the best and properly funded team, able to pay people to be quiet turn a blind eye. In 1999 cycling needed Armsrong and US Postal so much. Now we move into another phoney era of cleanliness in cycling we now have another hugely sponsored team and by an organisation that spends a lot of money to buy the rights for major cycling at that, what chance of any positives at Sky. Help me , but how did a pursuit world champion suddenly become able to climb after years of sitting in the grupetto?

 

[Brighton Mod]

First look at Ben Foster as Lance Armstrong in upcoming film

Read the book on holiday this year, Walsh had a weird obsession on this one. It rested mainly on what certain people had heard when Lance was being treated for cancer. But what his book didnt do was look at the wider picture in sport, it touched on Sean Kelly s positive in Paris - Brussels but brushed over it because he was Irish and a past friend. To major on Lance when it was going on all over the sport seemed a poor shot from a journalist at that, no balance in the book and he even admitted paying witnesses. He came as an outsider got a little taste and then became fixated by it. He even used money from his employer to fly around the world interviewing people for his own book, that's not cheating or theft, I'm no apologist for Lance and now everyone wants some money from him, but not Nike, Trek or Oakley who made millions on him. No doubt Walsh is making a packet on selling the story rights, will Armstrong get a cut? No that's interesting

 

[Stat Brother]

So here s the conondrum, Lance got away with it because initially the need for cleanliness in the sport after the Festina affair and the fact that US Postal were the best and properly funded team, able to pay people to be quiet turn a blind eye. In 1999 cycling needed Armsrong and US Postal so much. Now we move into another phoney era of cleanliness in cycling we now have another hugely sponsored team and by an organisation that spends a lot of money to buy the rights for major cycling at that, what chance of any positives at Sky. Help me , but how did a pursuit world champion suddenly become able to climb after years of sitting in the grupetto?

For someone who purports to know his way around the peloton, you really let yourself down some times.

This is how BW won Le Tour:-



Spin forward a couple of years and add into the mix:-

- The 'flatest' tour in recent history.
- The most TT miles in recent tour history.
- The perceived winner banned.
- The perceived competition riding the Giro.
- The strongest team riding solely for him.
- The weakness of all rival teams.

Did Wiggins win the tour before - NO.
Would Wiggins have won the following tour - NO.
Will Wiggins win the next tour - NO.
Did EVERYTHING fall into place to win last years tour - YES.

 

[Brighton Mod]

For someone who purports to know his way around the peloton, you really let yourself down some times.

This is how BW won Le Tour:-

View attachment 48014

Spin forward a couple of years and add into the mix:-

- The 'flatest' tour in recent history.
- The most TT miles in recent tour history.
- The perceived winner banned.
- The perceived competition riding the Giro.
- The strongest team riding solely for him.
- The weakness of all rival teams.

Did Wiggins win the tour before - NO.
Would Wiggins have won the following tour - NO.
Will Wiggins win the next tour - NO.
Did EVERYTHING fall into place to win last years tour - YES.

So being helped by certain substances doesn't make you hurt, have you ever stood on the Koppenberg and heard the effort going on, Yes the pros hurt like we do those alpine climbs didn't look too flat to me. Oh, there must have been no wrong doing in Sky because they are British and so is BW. But it wasn't the same when he was at Cofidis with David Millar and Rob Hayles and Nico Mattan. At Cofidis if you didn't, then you didn't ride. You should stop being so niaive,

 

[Stat Brother]

So being helped by certain substances doesn't make you hurt, have you ever stood on the Koppenberg and heard the effort going on, Yes the pros hurt like we do those alpine climbs didn't look too flat to me. Oh, there must have been no wrong doing in Sky because they are British and so is BW. But it wasn't the same when he was at Cofidis with David Millar and Rob Hayles and Nico Mattan. At Cofidis if you didn't, then you didn't ride. You should stop being so niaive,

Who said anything about being British.

He became competent and then victorious in Le Tour because over a long period of time he changed his physic to match the terrain.
Those are not the legs of a pursuit champion.

He was definitely 'helped' to victory.
He was helped by Contador being busted, Rodriguez riding the Vuelta (or the Giro I can't remember which), the wheels coming off the Schleck bus, the team developing Froome, 95+ kms of TT, only 2 high mountain summit finishes, one on the penultimate stage, and Belles Filles.

You only have to look at the attention paid by the team to winning Filles to know the tour was over before it started.

But hey if that's not good enough for you, then so be it.
Your ingrained hatred of cycling must be so deep, that you can't possibly look beyond a needle, then I pity you.
I don't see what else I have to say.

 

[Brighton Mod]

For someone who purports to know his way around the peloton, you really let yourself down some times.

This is how BW won Le Tour:-

View attachment 48014

Spin forward a couple of years and add into the mix:-

- The 'flatest' tour in recent history.
- The most TT miles in recent tour history.
- The perceived winner banned.
- The perceived competition riding the Giro.
- The strongest team riding solely for him.
- The weakness of all rival teams.

Did Wiggins win the tour before - NO.
Would Wiggins have won the following tour - NO.
Will Wiggins win the next tour - NO.
Did EVERYTHING fall into place to win last years tour - YES.

despite your facts, you do not forward any argument as to how BW could suddenly climb. I don't see Cancellara or Martin going for yellow and what you have written could as easily apply to them.

 

[Stat Brother]

despite your facts, you do not forward any argument as to how BW could suddenly climb. I don't see Cancellara or Martin going for yellow and what you have written could as easily apply to them.

Is there a law stating you must spend 3 years losing 10+kgs of weight, maintain your power ratio, and attempt to win Le Tour.

FFS you pillock, maybe, just maybe, they didn't want too, idiot.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Who said anything about being British.

He became competent and then victorious in Le Tour because over a long period of time he changed his physic to match the terrain.
Those are not the legs of a pursuit champion.

He was definitely 'helped' to victory.
He was helped by Contador being busted, Rodriguez riding the Vuelta (or the Giro I can't remember which), the wheels coming off the Schleck bus, the team developing Froome, 95+ kms of TT, only 2 high mountain summit finishes, one on the penultimate stage, and Belles Filles.

You only have to look at the attention paid by the team to winning Filles to know the tour was over before it started.

But hey if that's not good enough for you, then so be it.
Your ingrained hatred of cycling must be so deep, that you can't possibly look beyond a needle, then I pity you.
I don't see what else I have to say.

No my friend, I have been there so its not heresay. You seem to want to defend cycling against all other sports in some attempt to spare cycling from its major ills. The truth is that the average Joe doesn't really care about doping if their boy is winning and that's in any port. Yes McQuaid, Verbruggen, et al are as complicant in all these things as any other. But as with all other walks of the life the guys that pay the penalty are those on the lowest rung of the ladder. I have seen drug use and the outcome of drug use, the effects for sportsmen are not just physical. You need to concentrate on the left brain and stop referring to facts from the internet. Its rife in the sport, was rife in the sport and will be, because EPO, blood transfusions are now cheap and freely available. When Froome rode away from Wiggins, there was no team support it was at the end of the Tour and it was not flat. Make no error, I love BW, even has my dress sense, but he did what he had to do to win the race. Oh by the way, watch out for him forming a new British Team when he leaves Sky at the end of his contract next year. But then what do I know about the sport.

 

[Stat Brother]

No my friend, I have been there so its not heresay. You seem to want to defend cycling against all other sports in some attempt to spare cycling from its major ills.

As the rest of it doesn't make any sense I will answer this specific point.

I do not want to defend cycling, my mission on this thread is to point out that cycling is not the only sport with drug cheats.
Very much:-

'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

Today's comments by White typifies my stance.
Football is not a clean sport, there's enough evidence to warrant an investigation.
Common sense says something is up.
But no, instead of concerning himself with the legitimacy of his chosen sport he'd rather sit back and look down his nose at cycling.
When McQuaid & Verbruggen have the moral high ground something is very very wrong.


My dream is when Spain finally comes clean bringing everybody else down with them, and Muppet A is sat on MoTD saying 'well no drug can make you kick a ball straight'.
The NSC'ers will all be saying to their mates:-
'oh yeah well although it goes back so much further this current situation first arose with Dr Fuentes and the Operation Puerto scandal that rocked cycling back in the late 2000's'.
'I've been reading about it for years'.
'Don't get me started on tennis'.

 

[Brighton Mod]

As the rest of it doesn't make any sense I will answer this specific point.

I do not want to defend cycling, my mission on this thread is to point out that cycling is not the only sport with drug cheats.
Very much:-

'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

Today's comments by White typifies my stance.
Football is not a clean sport, there's enough evidence to warrant an investigation.
Common sense says something is up.
But no, instead of concerning himself with the legitimacy of his chosen sport he'd rather sit back and look down his nose at cycling.
When McQuaid & Verbruggen have the moral high ground something is very very wrong.


My dream is when Spain finally comes clean bringing everybody else down with them, and Muppet A is sat on MoTD saying 'well no drug can make you kick a ball straight'.
The NSC'ers will all be saying to their mates:-
'oh yeah well although it goes back so much further this current situation first arose with Dr Fuentes and the Operation Puerto scandal that rocked cycling back in the late 2000's'.
'I've been reading about it for years'.
'Don't get me started on tennis'.

Ah, now I understand and totally agree, cycling is an easy target. poorly paid riders who are not able to defend themselves either financially or educationally, excepting Lance. \no real team support during the season as riders return home after races or tour and of course a la David Walsh lets pick on cycling because of previously stated reasons its an easy target which raises headlines and has the general public nodding knowingly. So yes, in sport where there is a need to gain advantage over the opposition every opportunity to get ahead is used. This goes from the very bottom level of sport to the top and the higher you get the more it is used. So for example can Tennis afford to lose Nadal, Federer, Murray or Djorkovic and like Hamilton, Vettel etc from F1. The authorites and the top performers become entwined as both benefit from each other so to rock the boat will cost. its even reached the pundits and commentators now, what do think about Contador Sean, poacher turned gamekeeper. Cycling is the poor relation, an easy target and run by out and out crooks, whether Cookson can make any difference is difficult to tell. My team rode Gent Wevelgem and were riding Flanders when Tinkoff bid more than us, and yes it was brown paper bags. F1 fought against the limitation of £20m per team, why because theres so much black money and so many raking it off. Those who think that drugs are not used extensively are not educated on how the world runs, Compare Fran Cotton in the amateur game to todays forwards in rugby, there is no comparison and its not able the change to professionalism. Yes you will find in all sports some sacrificial minnows for the authorites to say, we are looking but the truth is they re not.
Cycling is my sport and passion, but I am a realist and have many contacts within the sport, the world should not ne so niaive. I watch the players at the Amex and wonder to myself.

 

[teaboy]

So here s the conondrum, Lance got away with it because initially the need for cleanliness in the sport after the Festina affair and the fact that US Postal were the best and properly funded team, able to pay people to be quiet turn a blind eye. In 1999 cycling needed Armsrong and US Postal so much. Now we move into another phoney era of cleanliness in cycling we now have another hugely sponsored team and by an organisation that spends a lot of money to buy the rights for major cycling at that, what chance of any positives at Sky. Help me , but how did a pursuit world champion suddenly become able to climb after years of sitting in the grupetto?

Great cycling knowledge shown right there...

 

[Stat Brother]

T'is a shame you weren't about last night TB.

Facts weren't even denting speculation.

 

[Stat Brother]

Six Belgian racing pigeons 'doped with drugs'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24658278

2 points:-

a) There is now more doping in Belgium pigeon racing that all of British football (dare I say European).

ii) There is now more dope testing in BPR than all of British football.

 

[Stat Brother]

Steroids can benefit athletes for a decade after use

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24730151

and a couple of bits of housekeeping:-
Anti-doping officials from Wada to start Jamaica drugs audit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24723767

Kenya doping issue to come under Wada microscope
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24736157

 

[teaboy]

Sorry, SB - this should go here too.

http://road.cc/content/news/98037-2012-giro-champion-ryder-hesjedal-admits-doping

 

[Stat Brother]

Sorry, SB - this should go here too.

http://road.cc/content/news/98037-2012-giro-champion-ryder-hesjedal-admits-doping

I'm too depressed to front up to it.
I did 'hide' it on geeks.

I'm now working on the theory he only did it when he didn't know what a proper bike looked like.
Just even that's a struggle.

 

[teaboy]

I think we're likely to get a lot more admissions like this in the next few years. Hopefully Cookson's Truth and Reconciliation thing will bring everything and everyone out of the shadows. Whether or not it will provide a cleaner future is anyone's guess, but I'm optimistic.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Sorry, SB - this should go here too.

http://road.cc/content/news/98037-2012-giro-champion-ryder-hesjedal-admits-doping

I have to stand by my earlier statements, I fear Hesjedal is one of many, especially those who testified against Armstrong, who will come out when they are beyond the reach of the authorites. Clearly he stopped doping eight years ago and only got better since not using performance enhancing drugs until he won the Giro? I find those who testified against Armstrong who also doped somewhat distateful, not only did Tyler Hamilton get busted once, not twice but three times and the authorities still listened to him testify. All these confessions from those who have taken their money from the sport, George Hincapie, at the end of their careers should look into themselves and feel even more cupable than Armstrong as they are without any honour or scruples.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I think we're likely to get a lot more admissions like this in the next few years. Hopefully Cookson's Truth and Reconciliation thing will bring everything and everyone out of the shadows. Whether or not it will provide a cleaner future is anyone's guess, but I'm optimistic.

No one who dopes ever thinks that they will be caught and that is very much true in cycling as all we are getting at the moment is confessions. Cookson has a huge challenge on this to change the culture and then the mindset and god forbid if there is a serious one at Sky, him, Brailsford and Sky will all be in the firing line.