Labour & The General Election defeat.

[WonderingSoton]

I find the left's insistence that Corbyn only cops so much stick from the press and public because it's all right wing slander to be pretty head in sand stuff.
Corbyn attracts stick because he has in just a short time done so much that warrants stick!


Decades voting against his own party, then insists that everyone votes with him on Syria
Get's upset at people who voted against him
Sacks Benn
Actually doesn't sack Benn
Instead sacks some lesser knowns of less relevance after days of indecision.
Massive mess over Trident with Eagle / Livingstone / Jones - where clearly Jezza has own view but doesn't have the balls or the gravitas within his own party to make his view become policy.

The list never ends, the only way Jezza avoids making gaffs is by shutting himself in his office and not opening his mouth. Which is what he seems to have done for the last few weeks. But that isn't likely to get him elected, unless the current government totally implodes and Jezza wins by default.

Which is possible with the whole European debate upcoming.

But then Jezza has his own PLP issues with that as well.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Why do people keep saying this? Corbyn won with 60% of the vote. Since then, there have been many more of his supporters joining the party while some of more centrist supporters have left. On a vote today, he'd probably get closer to 70% of the vote.

Of the ones you mentioned, Umunna, Jarvis and Miliband all declined to stand last time round - the former both said that being leader was incompatible with the personal lives. Miliband has fluffed a leadership bid twice and would really offer nothing new. Benn is flavour of the month right now but would be lucky to get 10% of the membership vote.

Labour has lost the next election. It lost it last May: the Tories are now free to change the boundaries, abolish 30 or 40 Labour constituencies and cut the party funding. The arithmetic is against the party right now. It could elect a leader with the principles of Gandhi, the leadership of Churchill, the oratory skills of Tony Benn, the charisma of Bill Clinton and the organisational ability of Attlee and still lose.

The real target is 2025. By then, the Tories would have won three elections and will find it hard to win another (winning four elections has only happened once in parliamentary history), the Labour party will be less divided as many of the anti-Corbyn MPs will have been ousted and the party will be in a position to win with a more left-wing agenda. I'm pretty sure that's the Corbynista theory anyway.

What makes you think the Labour Party have the luxury of thinking they'll still be around in 2025?

The Labour Party have been decisively rejected in Scotland, a sizeable chunk of their supporters have abandoned them for UKIP. Their popularity has not increased even though the Liberals have imploded and the Tories look set fair for at least one more term.

Is the Labour Party relevant any more? Is it time to consider the Liberals and Labour merging into a UK-equivalent 'Democrats' Party? I think this has to be on the agenda - even many in the Labour cabinet don't agree with their own leader's views, yet most supporters of Labour and the Lib Dems will identify with Obama and Hillary Clinton in the States.

 

[cjd]

You're a bit behind the times. The trade union influence was removed five years ago: it's one person, one vote now. Union leaders have no more power when it comes to choosing a leader than Joe Bloggs down the road

I didn't at any point in my post say it was the Union leaders who accounted for Corbyns vote.

Are you trying to suggest that trade union MEMBERS didn't play a significant part in voting for Corbyn ?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Labour has lost the next election in my opinion.

Fixed that for you

 

[T.G]

Oh, now we get down to it, it is all those bloody awful VOTERS that are the problem...

Well I thought I was pointing the finger of blame at the reactionary right wing press, however I do despair of people who believe this nonsense without considering the agenda behind the 'news'.

 

[Gwylan]

What makes you think the Labour Party have the luxury of thinking they'll still be around in 2025?
Is the Labour Party relevant any more? Is it time to consider the Liberals and Labour merging into a UK-equivalent 'Democrats' Party? I think this has to be on the agenda - even many in the Labour cabinet don't agree with their own leader's views, yet most supporters of Labour and the Lib Dems will identify with Obama and Hillary Clinton in the States.

Yes, that could happen. But it's happened twice before in Labour history and it didn't work out well for them - it took about 16 years to get elected again.

And there's a big difference this time: the departing MPs would be entering into an alliance with a party that's not left-of-centre but one that was in alliance with the Conservatives. I'm not sure that too many MPs would be able to do this - although I'm sure that some are thinking about it.

I didn't at any point in my post say it was the Union leaders who accounted for Corbyns vote.

Are you trying to suggest that trade union MEMBERS didn't play a significant part in voting for Corbyn ?

Quite right, you didn't say that. It's a fair cop.

But I do say that TU members didn't play a significant part in voting for Corbyn. They make up about a sixth of the leadership electorate so even if they all voted for Corbyn, he'd have to win a fair amount of support from the other parts of the electorate. In fact, his TU vote percentage was slightly less than his overall percentage but only slightly

 

[Titanic]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-city-dwellers-leaked-report?CMP=share_btn_tw

A disproportionate number of Labour members who have joined since the 2015 general election are “high-status city dwellers” pursuing well-paid jobs, according to internal party data. The party is doing less well when it comes to attracting rural dwellers, elderly people and those struggling to make ends meet..

Senior party figures, many of whom have connections to the north of England, claim the party has been taken over by a north London elite and remain concerned about the threat from Ukip in Labour’s working class heartlands.

Lord Watts, the former leader of the parliamentary party, told the House of Lords last week: “My advice to my own party leadership is that they should take less notice of the London-centric, hard-left political class who sit around in their £1m mansions, eating their croissants at breakfast and seeking to lay the foundations for a socialist revolution.
“It is not the job of the parliamentary Labour party to sit around developing ultra-leftwing policies that make it feel good. It is its job and responsibility to come forward with policies that will help us win the next general election.”

 

[Soulman]

Oh dear.

A notorious paedophile who once campaigned for sex with children to be legalised has been allowed to join the Labour party.

Tom O’Carroll, former chairman of the Paedophile Information Exchange (Pie), is understood to have joined after the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader in September.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4691418.ece

In good company.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-and-the-Paedophile-Information-Exchange.html

 

[crookie]

Oh dear.

A notorious paedophile who once campaigned for sex with children to be legalised has been allowed to join the Labour party.

Tom O’Carroll, former chairman of the Paedophile Information Exchange (Pie), is understood to have joined after the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader in September.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4691418.ece

In good company.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-and-the-Paedophile-Information-Exchange.html

Plenty in Labour with reason to hang their heads in shame over their support for that particular organisation

 

[Soulman]

Plenty in Labour with reason to hang their heads in shame over their support for that particular organisation

Yes, seems that way.

 

[crookie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35587959

Looks like he's gone again. Fair play to them, didn't take long !!

 

[glasfryn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35587959

Looks like he's gone again. Fair play to them, didn't take long !!

should be banned from any political party
I have never condoned violence but someone should take him into a quiet corner and give him a going over

 

[Leekbrookgull]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-city-dwellers-leaked-report?CMP=share_btn_tw

A disproportionate number of Labour members who have joined since the 2015 general election are “high-status city dwellers” pursuing well-paid jobs, according to internal party data. The party is doing less well when it comes to attracting rural dwellers, elderly people and those struggling to make ends meet..

Senior party figures, many of whom have connections to the north of England, claim the party has been taken over by a north London elite and remain concerned about the threat from Ukip in Labour’s working class heartlands.

Lord Watts, the former leader of the parliamentary party, told the House of Lords last week: “My advice to my own party leadership is that they should take less notice of the London-centric, hard-left political class who sit around in their £1m mansions, eating their croissants at breakfast and seeking to lay the foundations for a socialist revolution.
“It is not the job of the parliamentary Labour party to sit around developing ultra-leftwing policies that make it feel good. It is its job and responsibility to come forward with policies that will help us win the next general election.”

Bang-on. Primrose Hill classic area.

 

[Weatherman]

More like what has screwed Labour up big time was Red Ed,s policy to change electing a leader,absolutely no middle ground ground now. Mind you living in Primrose Hill maybe Ed is a Blue ?

There's no difference between Cons/Labour/liberal They just carry out instructions from above.

 

[Soulman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35587959

Looks like he's gone again. Fair play to them, didn't take long !!

Good. Thankfully they booted him when the news came out, good job it did come out.

 

[GT49er]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35587959

Looks like he's gone again. Fair play to them, didn't take long !!

What a shame! All those Corbyn haters that thought they'd found yet another stick to beat him with suddenly have their nice new stick taken away! My heart bleeds for 'em.................

 

[Soulman]

I've got to ask socialists out there, what is it about Corbyns Labour which attracts anti-Semites and paedophiles, in droves?

After the chair of the Oxford University Labour club quit alleging anti-Semitism, other members of the organisation have come forward with fresh racism claims against fellow Labour members. The new allegations include:

Several people, all of whom have been on the committee, have been known to sing the song “Rockets Over Tel Aviv” and have specifically expressed support for Hamas’ tactic of launching indiscriminate attacks against Israel’s Jewish citizens

One member stated that it was ‘not anti-Semitic’ to allege the existence of an international Jewish conspiracy

One member, then on committee, stated that all Jews should be expected to publicly denounce Zionism and the state of Israel, and that we should not associate with any Jew who fails to do so

One member was formally disciplined by their college for organising a group of students to harass a Jewish student and to shout ‘filthy Zionist’ whenever they saw her

One member argued that Hamas was justified in its policy of killing Jewish civilians and claimed that all Jews were legitimate targets

There has been no comment from the leader’s office or the Shadow Cabinet as we enter day three of the Oxford Labour race row.
http://order-order.com/2016/02/17/oxford-labour-race-row-all-jews-are-legitimate-targets/

 

[Soulman]

Jezza certainly attracts them.
http://order-order.com/2016/02/17/jezzas-jihadi-baddie-buddy/

 

[drew]

I've got to ask socialists out there, what is it about Corbyns Labour which attracts anti-Semites and paedophiles, in droves?

After the chair of the Oxford University Labour club quit alleging anti-Semitism, other members of the organisation have come forward with fresh racism claims against fellow Labour members. The new allegations include:

Several people, all of whom have been on the committee, have been known to sing the song “Rockets Over Tel Aviv” and have specifically expressed support for Hamas’ tactic of launching indiscriminate attacks against Israel’s Jewish citizens

One member stated that it was ‘not anti-Semitic’ to allege the existence of an international Jewish conspiracy

One member, then on committee, stated that all Jews should be expected to publicly denounce Zionism and the state of Israel, and that we should not associate with any Jew who fails to do so

One member was formally disciplined by their college for organising a group of students to harass a Jewish student and to shout ‘filthy Zionist’ whenever they saw her

One member argued that Hamas was justified in its policy of killing Jewish civilians and claimed that all Jews were legitimate targets

There has been no comment from the leader’s office or the Shadow Cabinet as we enter day three of the Oxford Labour race row.
http://order-order.com/2016/02/17/oxford-labour-race-row-all-jews-are-legitimate-targets/

And you don't think the Conservatives have their fair share of oddballs. Harvey Proctor, allegedly Leon Brittan and probably a few others.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

I've got to ask socialists out there, what is it about Corbyns Labour which attracts anti-Semites and paedophiles, in droves?

After the chair of the Oxford University Labour club quit alleging anti-Semitism, other members of the organisation have come forward with fresh racism claims against fellow Labour members. The new allegations include:

Several people, all of whom have been on the committee, have been known to sing the song “Rockets Over Tel Aviv” and have specifically expressed support for Hamas’ tactic of launching indiscriminate attacks against Israel’s Jewish citizens

One member stated that it was ‘not anti-Semitic’ to allege the existence of an international Jewish conspiracy

One member, then on committee, stated that all Jews should be expected to publicly denounce Zionism and the state of Israel, and that we should not associate with any Jew who fails to do so

One member was formally disciplined by their college for organising a group of students to harass a Jewish student and to shout ‘filthy Zionist’ whenever they saw her

One member argued that Hamas was justified in its policy of killing Jewish civilians and claimed that all Jews were legitimate targets

There has been no comment from the leader’s office or the Shadow Cabinet as we enter day three of the Oxford Labour race row.
http://order-order.com/2016/02/17/oxford-labour-race-row-all-jews-are-legitimate-targets/