[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[Peteinblack]

Nope, I remember and won't forgive them for some of the things they did, likewise I'm mature enough to understand some of the mistakes were in the pursuit of trying to do the right thing.

And you're deluded for thinking others wouldn't act in a similar manner. Being in power is very different than sniping from the sidelines or being captain hindsight but we aren't ever going to agree on that so let's leave it there.

With regard to the corruption of awarding of £ billions of taxpayers' money to Ministers' mates and corporate allies via dodgy contracts during Covid, no other party, other than Reform, would have done that for two very simple reasons:

1) Conservative philosophy starts from the premise that self-interest and pursuit of personal gain are inherent in human nature; that we are fundamentally selfish and acquisitive as a species, and this 'natural' desire to become richer is the engine of social progress. The individual is prioritised over society. As a result, Conservatives believe that anything which makes some people rich is to be applauded, and that businessmen and entrepreneurs are society's heroes, whereas those who seek to reduce inequality are 'going against the grain of human nature', or are apparently motivated by 'the politics of envy'. Of course, when ordinary workers and trade unions want more, they are condemned as greedy and selfish!

2) The links between Conservatives and the business community are incestuous and interchangeable. Many Conservative MPs and Ministers have always emanated from backgrounds in business, banking and high finance, and are far more sympathetic to the demands of business than to those of ordinary workers and trade unions. Equally, when they retire from politics, or lose their seats in an election, many Conservatives join the boards of companies and banks, having been invited by their corporate mates. There is effectively a revolving door between the Conservative Party and Britain's boardrooms.

Also, the Conservatives have always received huge donations at election time from large companies and wealthy businessmen - often far more than Labour receives from the trade unions, and very much more than parties like the Lib Dems and the Greens receive.

This combined impact of this 'humans are naturally selfish' philosophy, and the symbiotic links between the Conservative Party and big business/finance, means that corruption and cronyism are much, much, more likely under Conservative governments; mutual favours and mates scratching each others' backs.

Remember, too, that many Conservatives genuinely believe that they are 'born to rule', an arrogance which inevitably leads to an attitude that 'the rules don't apply to us' - laws and taxes are for us plebs. Hence the Tory mentality of "Don't do as we do, do as we say."

 

[armchairclubber]

and the last 14 yrs, an extremely poor show from the flagshaggers

The faith and trust that the British public have put in any politician standing in front of Union Jacks has been misplaced for many years now and becomes ever moreso.

Sadly it's expected now, they just compete in how many, from several parties. It's amazing what you can get away with when you do.

Please don't think Labour are exempt from that.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The 880k aren’t being handed pension credit, unless they’re prepared to do the exhaustive process, which they haven’t until now.

All of which will not help 2m others who until now, with the 880k, received WFP’s.thum

The 2M that Age UK are estimating includes the 880,000 who are entitled to benefits but don't claim.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/norwich/ab...llowing-winter-fuel-payment-cuts-says-age-uk/

But that is yet another issue that has needed addressing urgently for years now

 

[rogersix]

The faith and trust that the British public have put in any politician standing in front of Union Jacks has been misplaced for many years now and becomes ever moreso.

Sadly it's expected now, they just compete in how many, from several parties. It's amazing what you can get away with when you do.

Please don't think Labour are exempt from that

i did take note, the flags and the nation anthem at the party conference. tho no one will top the tories in lockdown. each minister on zoom, outdoing the last with successively larger flags in their offices at home, and then one of them came up with a portrait of the queen on the other shoulder, absolutely top drawer!

 

[ken tiler]

What are you asking for if it isn't continued deficit spending?

That’s because those countries continued to deficit spend beyond the resource capacity of their economy. We are nowhere near that.

 

[portslade seagull]

i did take note, the flags and the nation anthem at the party conference. tho no one will top the tories in lockdown. each minister on zoom, outdoing the last with successively larger flags in their offices at home, and then one of them came up with a portrait of the queen on the other shoulder, absolutely

And what colour is yours red with a sickle on it. Labour very quickly taking the nasty mantle

 

[Weststander]

That’s because those countries continued to deficit spend beyond the resource capacity of their economy. We are nowhere near that.

In an intertwined global economy, with critical credit ratings and market fund flows reactive to profligacy that stands out from the crowd, governments can’t over borrow or print money for spending, without dire consequences. Trussonomics gave us a painful insight.

QE for the Great Recession and then Pandemic didn’t see those consequences, because most major economies/blocs acted almost in unision.

 

[Baldseagull]

That’s because those countries continued to deficit spend beyond the resource capacity of their economy. We are nowhere near that.

Where is this spare capacity? I am not saying there isn't any, but I would like to understand how you can confidently say we are nowhere near it.

 

[rogersix]

And what colour is yours red with a sickle on it. Labour very quickly taking the nasty mantle

i vote lib dem

 

[Super Steve Earle]

With regard to the corruption of awarding of £ billions of taxpayers' money to Ministers' mates and corporate allies via dodgy contracts during Covid, no other party, other than Reform, would have done that for two very simple reasons:

1) Conservative philosophy starts from the premise that self-interest and pursuit of personal gain are inherent in human nature; that we are fundamentally selfish and acquisitive as a species, and this 'natural' desire to become richer is the engine of social progress. The individual is prioritised over society. As a result, Conservatives believe that anything which makes some people rich is to be applauded, and that businessmen and entrepreneurs are society's heroes, whereas those who seek to reduce inequality are 'going against the grain of human nature', or are apparently motivated by 'the politics of envy'. Of course, when ordinary workers and trade unions want more, they are condemned as greedy and selfish!

2) The links between Conservatives and the business community are incestuous and interchangeable. Many Conservative MPs and Ministers have always emanated from backgrounds in business, banking and high finance, and are far more sympathetic to the demands of business than to those of ordinary workers and trade unions. Equally, when they retire from politics, or lose their seats in an election, many Conservatives join the boards of companies and banks, having been invited by their corporate mates. There is effectively a revolving door between the Conservative Party and Britain's boardrooms.

Also, the Conservatives have always received huge donations at election time from large companies and wealthy businessmen - often far more than Labour receives from the trade unions, and very much more than parties like the Lib Dems and the Greens receive.

This combined impact of this 'humans are naturally selfish' philosophy, and the symbiotic links between the Conservative Party and big business/finance, means that corruption and cronyism are much, much, more likely under Conservative governments; mutual favours and mates scratching each others' backs.

Remember, too, that many Conservatives genuinely believe that they are 'born to rule', an arrogance which inevitably leads to an attitude that 'the rules don't apply to us' - laws and taxes are for us plebs. Hence the Tory mentality of "Don't do as we do, do as we say."

Presumably it isn't corruption to award £ billions of taxpayers money to cave in to ministers mates/unions who back Labour and demand inflation busting rises for their members in return for their votes and just going to work? Is this not just the Labour version of cronyism? After all, there is a £22 billion black hole in UK finances, so surely these rises aren't affordable?

Remember too, that many Labourites genuinely believe that they are 'born to control via the State', an arrogance that leads to exactly the same presumptions. The rules don't apply to politicians because they usually have the income and status not to care. Never seen a poor minister. Hence the Labour mentality of 'We'll take from anyone with anything, working or retired, and distribute it how we like and to hell with the consequences'.

By the way, it's bullshit to suggest Labour would have done any different to the Tories regarding contracts during Covid. In exactly the same way, Labour would have reached out to their contacts to procure urgent solutions in a international pandemic.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I don't doubt you're a good chap but, like pretty much everything you've written on this thread, this post indicates you are either trolling or just ignorant on this topic.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the latter, largely because of your track record on this site.

This will be my final post to you on this subject - I do hope you actually go and read up some more.

There will be additional help, in the form of pension credits, available to some who are currently not claiming them, either through ignorance (not knowing about them), pride (not wanting to ask for handouts) or fear of the bureaucratic process required to get them. Pension Credits have been in place since the early 2000s. If hundreds of thousands of people, who are entitled to free money are not claiming it, that tells its own story.

Beyond that, there are still a huge swathe of people who do not qualify for pension credits, as they sit just above the line. Because of the cliff-edge implementation of this, it means someone who sits £1 above the line will be £300 poorer than someone who sits exactly on the line. And if you are trying to live on c£11-12k a year, £300 is a significant amount of money, despite your flippant attitude to those in this position.

As it stands, there is no additional help for these people, despite you being sure there is. Or maybe you meant food banks and charity assistance - because that's all that is left.

Well said!

 

[BenGarfield]

In an intertwined global economy, with critical credit ratings and market fund flows reactive to profligacy that stands out from the crowd, governments can’t over borrow or print money for spending, without dire consequences. Trussonomics gave us a painful insight.

QE for the Great Recession and then Pandemic didn’t see those consequences, because most major economies/blocs acted almost in unision.

Firstly, governments dont borrow at all in the sense that a household does. Secondly QE had very little effect merely swapping bonds for reserves under the misguided assumption that increase reserves would encourage spending, when banks dont lend out of reserves.

The Liz Truss debacle told us nothing about the financial limits on spending, but more about the markets detecting an opportunity for profit, when they think the government is weak.

In the early 1990s, it was clear that Britain’s membership of the ERM which Europeans roped John Major into joining was untenable. Speculators knew that the pound was overvalued, so they could make profits by selling the pound short. This led to the UK forced out of the ERM after a day of turmoil which saw the interest rate skyrocket and the currency being sold off in large volumes.

Fast track to Truss. She was a sort of accidental Prime Minister and It was obvious that she was way out of her depth, and that the speculators would test her nerve. They did and she folded. Her fiscal plans might have been ridiculous but that is beside the point. Speculators will test any situation where they sense there is a weakness

For years markets have tried to force the Japanese to change their policies of large deficits, and low interest rates to reward bets against the yen. They failed because Japan held its ground. The pound may have depreciated more than it did if Truss had held her ground, but the pound would almost certainly have recovered as did the yen,

So the lesson for those that want to promote socially beneficial fiscal policies is that any depreciation that would follow a showdown with the financial markets is nothing to be worried about.

 

[Weststander]

Firstly, governments dont borrow at all in the sense that a household does. Secondly QE had very little effect merely swapping bonds for reserves under the misguided assumption that increase reserves would encourage spending, when banks dont lend out of reserves.

The Liz Truss debacle told us nothing about the financial limits on spending, but more about the markets detecting an opportunity for profit, when they think the government is weak.

In the early 1990s, it was clear that Britain’s membership of the ERM which Europeans roped John Major into joining was untenable. Speculators knew that the pound was overvalued, so they could make profits by selling the pound short. This led to the UK forced out of the ERM after a day of turmoil which saw the interest rate skyrocket and the currency being sold off in large volumes.

Fast track to Truss. She was a sort of accidental Prime Minister and It was obvious that she was way out of her depth, and that the speculators would test her nerve. They did and she folded. Her fiscal plans might have been ridiculous but that is beside the point. Speculators will test any situation where they sense there is a weakness

For years markets have tried to force the Japanese to change their policies of large deficits, and low interest rates to reward bets against the yen. They failed because Japan held its ground. The pound may have depreciated more than it did if Truss had held her ground, but the pound would almost certainly have recovered as did the yen,

So the lesson for those that want to promote socially beneficial fiscal policies is that any depreciation that would follow a showdown with the financial markets is nothing to be worried about.

Interest including mortgage rates would rise. Two reasons.

Inflation on imports from a devalued pound. Question - was Japan an overall exporter in 1991.

The real world rate lent to the UK (or expected return on lending) would increase due to a poor look on our fiscal/monetary management, allied to that credit agencies would downgrade the UK.

 

[fly high]

This is all a bit silly too;


“Neil Duncan-Jordan, elected in July as the Labour MP for Poole, said the argument that people in need could just apply for pension credit and get the payment missed the point of the current universality.

“Means-testing is supposed to target help at those who need it most. But those who need it most are those who don’t claim it,” he said”.

Well he says it’s missing the point but it’s not. It’s exactly the point.

If you need help with your bills, it’s there. Apply for it. What’s the problem?

Apparently anyone who claimed pensions credit after July won't get the WFA this winter anyway so everyone rushing to do it now is too late.

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

Can anyone defend Gareth Snell, from labour, another slimy snake slithering within their ranks.

Where are your morals Labour, let's be having you.

Labour MP blasted as picture emerges with winter fuel payments pledge

The Labour MP has come under fire after a 2017 picture emerged of him vowing not to back the removal of winter fuel payments.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Is it PotG?]

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/reeve...home-amid-pensioner-winter-fuel-payment-cuts/

I'm alright Jack.......

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/reeve...home-amid-pensioner-winter-fuel-payment-cuts/

I'm alright Jack.......

I'm sure there is so much more to come from labour, Starmer had no regrets in the commons today on the WInter fuel payment vote, what an arse, and Reeves just has that wicked look of evil and arrogance in one.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I'm sure there is so much more to come from labour, Starmer had no regrets in the commons today on the WInter fuel payment vote, what an arse, and Reeves just has that wicked look of evil and arrogance in one.

I'm just delighted that now the grown ups are in the room, they'll be nice and snug and warm.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It’s £25 a month. For about 4 or 5 months until the pension increase.

And those in poverty can get help with heating.

People really need to calm down.

Telegraph reporting Labour are looking at removing the single persons council tax discount.

How much of the £400 do you think will be left after the budget?

 

[chip]

This was in the FT today