[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[Baldseagull]

Nothing like a reasoned response - oh and what is the connection with "lettuce lady economics"

Reasoned attempts have been made before, but you won't accept that your theory breaks down when you try to do some of the things it predicts are possible.
The connection is economics that don't work.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

There really is no point in a discussion with you. Have a good read back on your deeply offensive posts towards the elderly.

I'm neither Labour or Conservative, but under no circumstances could I argue, discuss, or debate this disgusting vindictive decision by one of the three witches..

Just so you have some grasp of where I'm coming from....... My working life was for the elderly. I think I was reasonably good at it too. I don't receive WFA, neither do I need it. But I do have an inkling about how the elderly view their income against expenditure....and the lengths they will go to stay within bounds of their finances.

It is that, why I care about this bitch,s vindictive decision. The Labour Party have been in power for 5 minutes. I waited 14 years for something better to happen.

So far......an absolute f***ing shambles. It doesn't bode well for the future.

I share concerns for the future.

I completely agree with the arguments that this wasn't the first demographic which sprang to mind when I heard the expression, "broadest shoulders".

However..
The vast majority of people that will lose this payment, don't need it.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Hats off to Jon Trickett.

Put Party politics aside and voted as a decent human being with a conscience.

Power to your elbow mate, and good luck when Starmer gives you a kicking.

 

[BenGarfield]

Reasoned attempts have been made before, but you won't accept that your theory breaks down when you try to do some of the things it predicts are possible.
The connection is economics that don't work.

Its not "my" theory but is a well established economic school of thought which has a peer reviewed, body of work stretching back for over thirty years. taught in university economic Idepartments worldwide. I don`t remember "predicting" anything. MMT is an apolitical description of the current monetary operations of a country such as the UK with a fiat currency. Of course there are political ramifications which can be adopted by people of various political hues. I am a socialist so I will use the insights of MMT to make political points about policy proposals such the withdrawal of the heating allowance, which in my view is unjustifed both morally and purely from a fiscal policy perspective.

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

Becky Cooper, did not vote, is there anybody pleased they still voted for her on here?

 

[LamieRobertson]

I share concerns for the future.

I completely agree with the arguments that this wasn't the first demographic which sprang to mind when I heard the expression, "broadest shoulders".

However..
The vast majority of people that will lose this payment, don't need it.

What’s your criteria for “don’t need it”?

 

[cjd]

I share concerns for the future.



However..
The vast majority of people that will lose this payment, don't need it.

Fair enough, I'm getting your point of view now at lat.


"The vast majority don't need it".

So......

Those people with children suffering mental Health issues....they're not the majority....f*** 'em.

Those families struggling on benefits....they're not the majority....f*** 'em.

Those with physical dissabilties....they're not the majority....f*** 'em.

Those suffering from racial abuse......they're not the majority....f*** 'em.

Those suffering from long term illnesses....they're not the majority.....f*** 'em.

In fact all the minorities....they're not the majority...f*** the lot of 'em eh ?

From my personal point of view, each should be helped in their own unique way.


A draconian, all one size fits all is utterly, indefensible and embarrassing seeing all those who clearly care little, to defend incompetence and sheer vindictiveness.

A fairer system like everything else takes time and consultation. Something that bitch of a chancellor has failed to do on her first attempt at being the housekeeper and hopes of the nation.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

What’s your criteria for “don’t need it”?

Anyone who will not be able to pay their fuel bill , without it.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Becky Cooper, did not vote, is there anybody pleased they still voted for her on here?

Probably threatened with losing the whip….the neighbouring MP (mine) voted against tit

 

[LamieRobertson]

Anyone who will not be able to pay their fuel bill , without it.

So …say they paid their fuel bill….but for example cut down/stopped on other things like venturing outside and meeting friends for coffee ….you know important things that an older person needs to do for the benefit for their health …thats ok?

 

[cjd]

Anyone who will not be able to pay their fuel bill , without it.

That just about sums up your grasp of a serious situation.


"Ooooohhhh mister energy company I've had the heating on all day, but I can't afford it "


Energy Company:... " Oh don't worry love. We will will forward your bill on to "Uh Uh Him ". Sleep well my lovely.xx

 

[Baldseagull]

Its not "my" theory but is a well established economic school of thought which has a peer reviewed, body of work stretching back for over thirty years. taught in university economic Idepartments worldwide. I don`t remember "predicting" anything. MMT is an apolitical description of the current monetary operations of a country such as the UK with a fiat currency. Of course there are political ramifications which can be adopted by people of various political hues. I am a socialist so I will use the insights of MMT to make political points about policy proposals such the withdrawal of the heating allowance, which in my view is unjustifed both morally and purely from a fiscal policy perspective.

MMT's description of an economy like the UK, is like me describing me performing a press up as pushing the planet Earth away.
It can look as though that is what is happening, relative to me, but it has no practical purpose to look at it that way, as me doing press ups doesnt move the planet, and if a comet is headed our way, I can't save the Earth by doing press ups, and you can't just keep printing money and expect it to have the same value.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Any pensioner on an income of £50k is (presumably) living off a very large pension.

I'm not sure anyone who has access to that find of income in retirement, is in need of £300 to cover their bills.

I think you’d get support for this!

I reckon you and as WZ has said, don’t like the way this has been handled and as a good person along with others think it should be handled differently ….even if it ends up paying some who don’t ‘need it’, which i think is better than not giving it to those who do

 

[Uh_huh_him]

So …say they paid their fuel bill….but for example cut down/stopped on other things like venturing outside and meeting friends for coffee ….you know important things that an older person needs to do for the benefit for their health …thats ok?

In an ideal world no it isn't.

I would also like there to be a well funded CAMHS service for those in need of support for their mental health.
But there isn't.

If you have enough money to cover your bills, that's not a terrible place to be.
Pensioner or not.

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

, Probably threatened with losing the whip….the neighbouring MP (mine) voted against tit

I am sure, but didn't Starmer keep leading with "country first, politics second" ?
If he really feels that dropping the WFA is putting the country first, he further down the road than Biden was.
I mean he still forgets he is PM on a regular basis

 

[The Clamp]

Fair enough, I'm getting your point of view now at lat.


"The vast majority don't need it".

So......

Those people with children suffering mental Health issues....they're not the majority....f*** 'em.

Those families struggling on benefits....they're not the majority....f*** 'em.

Those with physical dissabilties....they're not the majority....f*** 'em.

Those suffering from racial abuse......they're not the majority....f*** 'em.

Those suffering from long term illnesses....they're not the majority.....f*** 'em.

In fact all the minorities....they're not the majority...f*** the lot of 'em eh ?

From my personal point of view, each should be helped in their own unique way.


A draconian, all one size fits all is utterly, indefensible and embarrassing seeing all those who clearly care little, to defend incompetence and sheer vindictiveness.

A fairer system like everything else takes time and consultation. Something that bitch of a chancellor has failed to do on her first attempt at being the housekeeper and hopes of the nation.

I think perhaps calm down.

And don’t jump to conclusions. A few people you are berating for “not caring” are in caring professions and work with vulnerable people.

Just perhaps be mindful and give some rational thought to other people’s opinions.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I am not sure using Johnson as a bar is that useful, Labour are meant to be better than Johnsons lot, already seen a lot of "well, the Tories did xyz" doesn't matter, they have brought this policy in after demanding it not being removed previously.

I believe part of his thinking was people wouldn't care if they spin it as all old people are well off so it's a raid on the richer parts of the population.

He didn't expect this push back

I’d like to have seen Starmer give a speech to a packed hall of less well off pensioners today instead of his mates at the TUC…might not have had such an easy time

 

[crookie]

Hamfisted balls up imho. Never in the manifesto, much like the crackpot outdoor smoking ban. Half the so-called black hole was public sector pay rises. The money gained from this is a drop in the ocean for the terrible optics for Labour. The IFS warned during the election whoever won would have to significantly up taxes. Both parties stuck their heads in the sand. Really glad Labour won, but if they stick to rigid treasury orthodoxy rather than genuinely reform the tax system then I can't say I'm very optimistic for the rest of this parliament. This country is crumbling around us, to make such a big deal about saving £1.5b that will do nothing of note looks like terrible politics to me.

 

[LamieRobertson]

In an ideal world no it isn't.

I would also like there to be a well funded CAMHS service for those in need of support for their mental health.
But there isn't.

If you have enough money to cover your bills, that's not a terrible place to be.
Pensioner or not.

So just exist ….righto………still i guess if you are a train driver not to worry

It used to be said that a country would be judged on how well it treats its young and old…..right now badly

 

[cjd]

I think perhaps calm down.

And don’t jump to conclusions. A few people you are berating for “not caring” are in caring professions and work with vulnerable people.

Just perhaps be mindful and give some rational thought to other people’s opinions.

For the people who are in caring position...and think from memory...you have been or are one of them, shame on them for their attitude towards the elderly....you know....those ones who may have brought you into the world, or fought for your freedom in a war ( as my father did ), or those who lived through such difficult times but still, worked and contributed to the 'system' and helped grow this country financially in the world order, that astonishingly, we are still, I think the 6th most economic power in the world.

I can suffer fools gladly all the day long. It's not their fault, just circumstances.


I cannot suffer so called 'intelligent ' people acting like fools. Bloody nauseating.