Labour has turned into a party of the middle classes

[peterward]

This is a top post, but [MENTION=25]Gwylan[/MENTION] also seems to recognise the extent of Labour's challenge. I'm not so sure the Labour candidates do, especially with their eagerness to associate themselves with New Labour in any which way they can.

Spot on and that's becuase many of those whove thrown their hat into the ring are really not bothered about the electorate or changing demographics they are all just fiercely ambitious career politicians who will do anything to further themselves and see getting the top job in Labour as the main the problem the country faces.

 

[Chicken Run]

Well let us know if that eases your troubled conscience, given you support a government that has caused homelessness to rocket given the property bubble they continually inflate, no housing investment and cuts in care to the mentally ill. You must be so proud of foodbank Britain, huh?

Meanwhile all you do though is talk the talk eh. X

 

[alfredmizen]

I didn't say they would: I said "the left and traditional working class had nowhere else to go", I stand by that, there were many people in the 90s who were well to the left of mainstream Labour but continued to vote for them - that's not necessarily the case now

You mentioned the left and traditional working class , well the scottish working class have spoken and voted for the SNP, im not sure how the welsh working class vote , but in numerical terms , theyre insignificant, that leaves the english , if theyre still in england theyre unable to vote Plaid Cymru or SNP, they may have 'somewhere to go' with the greens , and 'the left' may vote green , but as i said , the english working class who actually matter numerically, will never vote green in any significant numbers.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Spot on and that's becuase many of those whove thrown their hat into the ring are really not bothered about the electorate or changing demographics they are all just fiercely ambitious career politicians who will do anything to further themselves and see getting the top job in Labour as the main the problem the country faces.

But that's true on all sides of the divide. It's not unique to Labour.

 

[BLOCK F]

I love the way that Andy Burnham is being painted as a rampant loony leftie. Yes he has union backing but he's no Derek Hatton or Ken livingstone

For me, when I come to vote for leader, we will need a similar marriage to that seen with John Prescott and tony Blair in my view. And lets not forget that Blair's first term was actually quite radical (minimum wage etc)

For me it needs to be someone who;

Supports workers of whatever 'class' they are
Understands that many people go into business, not with the aim to fleece employees, and so support them and other entrepreneurs
Understand that the principle of education and integrated health and care which is free at point of use, and which has safety and care at the centre, should be the key aim NOT who supplies it...potentially taking the nhs out of political controls by having a cross party board for it
Invest in all activities that promote people's aspirations and opportunities
Accept and understand that benefits can and should help the 'real' poor and be prepared to tackle the (albeit heavily overstated) game players
Fair tax for all, including closing avoidance schemes and tackling evasion
Not assume anybody having concerns about immigration is a racist. Yes some are racists but deal with them separately

I'm not saying labour wasn't doing most of these. Hut we need to ensure that people are clear how amd why it will get done

Sounds like you should have voted Tory, ROSM!

 

[alfredmizen]

Sorry? Why are the needs of the white working class any different to the black working class? Try and answer this without being blatantly racist

Labour couldnt give a f**k about the white working class , its proved it with immigration policies and judicial policies , minorities when elected , will always look after their own , you only have to look at chuka umunna's constant whining , along with sadiq khan and Diane abbott, i could go on all day, they have special interests and its not for the white working class first and foremost.

 

[alfredmizen]

And while you're at it what's your definition of British in that context?

Someone born here for a start, who accepts british values and our way of life , multi culturalism and the promotion of every culture as equal or better than ours is turning this country into one vast transit shed ,full of people with no real allegiance to this country at all, you only have to look at the crowd when pakistan play cricket, or the farce with jack grealish, who hasnt even got irish parents yet cant make up his mind whether he plays for england or ireland. have a look below at the london suburb i was born in when the pakistan cricket team won something, i fully expect some mealy mouthed bollocks about repecting heritage etc , when the truth is , they are british when it suits them , ive worked with 'british' pakistanis who have smirkingly told me so.

 

[peterward]

Labour couldnt give a f**k about the white working class , its proved it with immigration policies and judicial policies , minorities when elected , will always look after their own , you only have to look at chuka umunna's constant whining , along with sadiq khan and Diane abbott, i could go on all day, they have special interests and its not for the white working class first and foremost.

not comfortable with the term "white working class"...... skin colour doesnt matter one jot and nothing should be defined by it.

There is an argument to be had about the positives and negatives of multi culturalism and if that fosters cohesion or division but not multi ethnicity.

As for Labour opening the floodgates to immigration when last in power, that wasn't so much aimed at people of any colour or class already in the UK, it was a totally self serving cynical act to try and ensure Labour increased its own grip on power as stats prove 3 out of 4 immigrants from poorer countries will likely vote Labour.

 

[alfredmizen]

not comfortable with the term "white working class"...... skin colour doesnt matter one jot and nothing should be defined by it.

There is an argument to be had about the positives and negatives of multi culturalism and if that fosters cohesion or division but not multi ethnicity.

As for Labour opening the floodgates to immigration when last in power, that wasn't so much aimed at people of any colour or class already in the UK, it was a totally self serving cynical act to try and ensure Labour increased its own grip on power as stats prove 3 out of 4 immigrants from poorer countries will likely vote Labour.

I couldnt care less what youre 'comfortable' with peter to be honest mate,im not 'comfortable' with what this country has been allowed to become, youre right skin colour shouldnt matter , and it doesnt in the true sense , unfortunately , many , but not all people who arent white dont feel the same , and their allegiances , are not to this country and what it stands for, i lived in both tower hamlets and newham , and the bangladeshis there had no interest whatsoever in integrating , they wanted their own little version of rural syhlet, just with the added benefits of the NHS, social housing and the welfare state.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Someone born here for a start,

I'd actually agree with that part in context.

who accepts british values and our way of life , multi culturalism and the promotion of every culture as equal or better than ours is turning this country into one vast transit shed ,full of people with no real allegiance to this country at all, you only have to look at the crowd when pakistan play cricket, or the farce with jack grealish, who hasnt even got irish parents yet cant make up his mind whether he plays for england or ireland. have a look below at the london suburb i was born in when the pakistan cricket team won something, i fully expect some mealy mouthed bollocks about repecting heritage etc , when the truth is , they are british when it suits them , ive worked with 'british' pakistanis who have smirkingly told me so.

You are Norman Tebbit and I claim my five pounds.

 

[ROSM]

Sounds like you should have voted Tory, ROSM!

Yes because the tories stood for all this....Except maybe the health, education, benefits and tax elements!

 

[alfredmizen]

I'd actually agree with that part in context.



You are Norman Tebbit and I claim my five pounds.

Very good GB , predictable though, youre welcome to add a meaningful reply if you want.

 

[glasfryn]

You're deluded if you think the English working class will vote for the greens in any significant numbers.

I don't see why not the GREENS have more socialist policies than Labour/ New labour/ watered down tories

 

[alfredmizen]

I don't see why not the GREENS have more socialist policies than Labour/ New labour/ watered down tories

The trouble is a lot of what are , or would still class themselves as the working classes own their own home , drive a half decent car, are aspirational for their kids if not themselves and dont want their taxes being spent on a single mother with 4 kids who has never worked.

 

[ROSM]

The trouble is a lot of what are , or would still class themselves as the working classes own their own home , drive a half decent car, are aspirational for their kids if not themselves and dont want their taxes being spent on a single mother with 4 kids who has never worked.

Does it matter if it's a black or white single mother?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don't see why not the GREENS have more socialist policies than Labour/ New labour/ watered down tories

Mainly because water butts, composting, vegetable oil fuel, recycling, renewables, sustainability and all that are largely seen as 'luxury' considerations compared to the fundamental needs of paying for your home and putting food on the table.

I'm a Green really, believe wholeheartedly in renewables, sustainability, recycling and the careful management of our environment, but not sure I buy into quite how left of centre they find themselves. I think they'd attract more votes if they were less 'left' and more focused on their fundamental message of preserving and protecting our environment.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Very good GB , predictable though, youre welcome to add a meaningful reply if you want.

Well if you insist.

First up I agree that the people who should be helped / targetted by our politicians are firstly and foremost those born here. Secondly I agree with the common rebuttals of the cricket test. Both based on my own experiences of living abroad as much as anything.

When I lived in Aus and also East Asia I still felt British and I would have still if I'd permanently emigrated. I'd have considered any children born there as "belonging" to the country of their birth. However, their choice of cricket team / football team would be entirely a matter for them. I'd still have my England football, rugby and cricket tops and that would be who I'd cheer for. I'd imagine that would influence a small child every bit as much as their school mates.

An ex colleague of mine is Indian but lived for a while in Toronto and now in Melbourne. On his FB photos he's recently been seen wearing a Maple Leafs hockey shirt, and both a India and Australia one day cricket kit (both during the World Cup). A little like being a Chelsea fan but occasionally popping down to your local club and its message board eh?

 

[glasfryn]

Mainly because water butts, composting, vegetable oil fuel, recycling, renewables, sustainability and all that are largely seen as 'luxury' considerations compared to the fundamental needs of paying for your home and putting food on the table.

I'm a Green really, believe wholeheartedly in renewables, sustainability, recycling and the careful management of our environment, but not sure I buy into quite how left of centre they find themselves. I think they'd attract more votes if they were less 'left' and more focused on their fundamental message of preserving and protecting our environment.

good start is
no trident
no 100billion rail link to save 20 minutes to brum
and of coarse free compost bins

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Does it matter if it's a black or white single mother?

Not really because at least one of the kids will be mixed race

 

[ROSM]

Not really because at least one of the kids will be mixed race

Spot on.