[Politics] Labour has suspended former leader Jeremy Corbyn

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Criticise big banking all you like, but it gets antisemitic when there is an image of a Jew with a big nose counting money. Why can’t critics of Israel or banking leave out that stuff? These tropes are as old as antisemitism itself and are detailed here https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism along with the ‘new world order - the world is run by the Jews’ conspiracy shit.

This sort of thing has been debunked and is not ok. Propoganda like this helped thousands of Germans conspire to kill millions and millions of Jews last century.

View attachment 159019

No it is not OK. You are quite right.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No problems with Jews in general. Why would I?

Not surprised a lot of people here run in to defend Zionist (and non-Zionist) bankers, transnational business owners and imperialists as you've spent several centuries carrying out looting, raping, killing and colonialising all over the world on their command.

I suspect you're cruising for a bruising (banning) with that sort of shite.

 

[amexer]

On basis last 4 years must have been the worst possible period for whatever party .to be in government. I think best thing labour did was lose last election

 

[clapham_gull]

Disagree.

Leftists aren't slipping into antisemitism.

Your knowledge of history is appalling. It's existed on the both the left and the right for hundreds of years.

 

[Swansman]

Criticise big banking all you like, but it gets antisemitic when there is an image of a Jew with a big nose counting money. Why can’t critics of Israel or banking leave out that stuff? These tropes are as old as antisemitism itself and are detailed here https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism along with the ‘new world order - the world is run by the Jews’ conspiracy shit.

This sort of thing has been debunked and is not ok. Propoganda like this helped thousands of Germans conspire to kill millions and millions of Jews last century.

View attachment 159019

While the noses are indeed silly, stupid, primitive propaganda, it wasn't the reason why the Germans went nazi:
economic turmoil in combination with Jewish wealth (0.95% of the population was Jewish in 1910; 30% of the 30 families owning more than 50 million marks were Jewish).

When the economy went to hell, people did not like to starve while they also noticed that some Jews were very rich and held 80% of the leading positions on the Berlin stock market.

There was no need for the dumb nose thing. All Hitler had to was to a) point at economical facts and b) tell the people that they would be richer and happier without the Jews.

What the desperate Germans failed to acknowledge was that most of the difference was down to a few percent of the Jews being very, very wealthy rather than every Jew being richer than every non-Jew. That is one of the most important takings from the Nazi Germany/WW2 era; you can't blame an entire people for the wrongdoings and greed of a few families.

You're also right about the 'New World Order' - it doesn't exist. The world order is very old with the same financial dynasties remaining the most powerful and wealthy for a century or more. It'll keep being that way as anyone who dares suggests a different distribution of wealth and power will inevitably be labelled either a communist, antisemite, or one of the other labels used to make sure that only politicians that allow the global oligopol to remain in place are available for selection in our "democracies".

It works great. Most people are sheep and just buy into it.

The only way to end real antisemitism is to remove the power from the oligopol that mainly consists of European-heritage people and Jews. That way the average Jew (and the average Euro-American for that matter) won't be hated by pretty much every poor person in every poor country.

 

[clapham_gull]

The main problem (of course) with Corbyn is he spent his entire career campaigning against the EU then was utterly compromised by a huge influx of new young members who wanted to remain.

Then as a leader he was forced to keep his mouth shut on the issue. An honourable leader would have resigned since his views on such an important subject were completely at odds with the vast majority of the membership.

 

[Weststander]

No its not for the victims to decide. It cant work that way for obvious reasons. The "victims" can't decide its antisemitism to criticise big banking, just like eg "victims" of fat-shaming can't decide it is fat-shaming if I smoke a cigarette. If victims of any kind of oppression gets to decide what they are oppressed by, no one could do anything. If a feminist says you're a sexist because your wear shorts, it doesn't automatically mean she is right just because she is a victim of sexism.

And if you had a brain you wouldn't think I'm a racist so that makes your whole "point" invalid.

This is what racism looks like:


Someone who is pro-Zionist and pro-Israel thinks Arabs and Africans are savages. How uncommon.

It is usually what pro-Zionists do: call criticism of Zionist leaders racist/barbarian/whatever, just to five minutes later celebrate Israel bombing some children's hospital in Palestine.

This thread isn’t about Zionists or the original ethnicity of some parts of world banking. Although antisemites of the left and right will be turned on by you talking about that.

It’s about racism within the UK and Labour Party to jewish people here. That’s all.

What we do know is that victims were UK politicians and supporters, who happened to have Jewish roots. They deserve the full protection of UK law, processes within the Labour Party and us, the public at large.

If this was far right targeting of Jews, no one would post here about banking or Zion. A couple of disgusting folk tried that here circa 15 years and got kicked out for it. The difference now, a handful of lefties won’t allow the sacred cow of Corbyn or the hard left to be criticised.

Corbyn isn’t a god like saint. I reserve that label to great people who fight all forms of racism. Not a selective list based on old Cold War battles, foes from that era.

 

[Swansman]

This thread isn’t about Zionists or the original ethnicity of some parts of world banking. Although antisemites of the left and right will be turned on by you talking about that.

It’s about racism within the UK and Labour Party to jewish people here. That’s all.

What we do know is that victims were UK politicians and supporters, who happened to have Jewish roots. They deserve the full protection of UK law, processes within the Labour Party and us, the public at large.

If this was far right targeting of Jews, no one would post here about banking or Zion. A couple of disgusting folk tried that here circa 15 years and got kicked out for it. The difference now, a handful of lefties won’t allow the sacred cow of Corbyn or the hard left to be criticised.

Corbyn isn’t a god like saint. I reserve that label to great people who fight all forms of racism. Not a selective list based on old Cold War battles, foes from that era.

This thread is about a fuckload of things. Mainly it is about neo-liberals - who are right-wing by definition even if they claim to be "centrist" or "left-wing" - being very afraid of left-wing politics and thus lifting every rock to find a way to make this bloke look like a bad person. Just like you'll, no doubt, do the next time someone who wants to give the poor a functioning society slips through the system. All you need is Murdoch & co to provide a helping hand and point you in a direction that will confirm your prejudice about true leftists.

But yeah of course he's not a godlike saint. No one is, and no one finds it important to be one unless its a left-wing politician, in which case the demand is there from day one.

 

[Weststander]

This thread is about a fuckload of things. Mainly it is about neo-liberals - who are right-wing by definition even if they claim to be "centrist" or "left-wing" - being very afraid of left-wing politics and thus lifting every rock to find a way to make this bloke look like a bad person. Just like you'll, no doubt, do the next time someone who wants to give the poor a functioning society slips through the system. All you need is Murdoch & co to provide a helping hand and point you in a direction that will confirm your prejudice about true leftists.

But yeah of course he's not a godlike saint. No one is, and no one finds it important to be one unless its a left-wing politician, in which case the demand is there from day one.

Lots of Labour supporters here, I wouldn’t even say they’re Blairites, who want to see social justice, high taxation for the wealthy ….. who are passionately against all forms of racism including anti semitism.

You’ve probably read about the 1936 Battle of Cable Street.

I can’t get that out of my mind in these discussions. I think the good folk of nsc would be on the correct side that day. I like that analogy.

I do understand the neo-liberal definition. If we must pigeon hole folk, I don’t see that with the people posting here. Many are ‘working class’ to the core. They just so happen to loath anti semitism.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It works great. Most people are sheep and just buy into it.

And yet you sit in your flat eating pizza and posting on foreign football forums. Great way to rebel.

And btw if you are going to attach blame on the British people for a couple of hundred years of colonialism, perhaps you should apply the same logic to your Viking countrymen? All nations have at some point victimised or taken advantage of others or allowed such situations to exist in their own nation. Humans are inherently flawed.

 

[jakarta]

And yet you sit in your flat eating pizza and posting on foreign football forums. Great way to rebel.

And btw if you are going to attach blame on the British people for a couple of hundred years of colonialism, perhaps you should apply the same logic to your Viking countrymen? All nations have at some point victimised or taken advantage of others or allowed such situations to exist in their own nation. Humans are inherently flawed.

And smoking dope, always a good way to get your mind focused on important issues...

 

[Swansman]

Lots of Labour supporters here, I wouldn’t even say they’re Blairites, who want to see social justice, high taxation for the wealthy ….. who are passionately against all forms of racism including anti semitism.

You’ve probably read about the 1936 Battle of Cable Street.

I can’t get that out of my mind in these discussions. I think the good folk of nsc would be on the correct side that day. I like that analogy.

I do understand the neo-liberal definition. If we must pigeon hole folk, I don’t see that with the people posting here. Many are ‘working class’ to the core. They just so happen to loath anti semitism.

Of course everyone should loath antisemitism. Ridiculing or killing people because of their ethnic heritage is... very simply wrong. The problem is that the word antisemitism is used for too many things and in too many contexts, making it a very useful word if you want to rule & divide.

Britain is known to be THE working class country. It is also known as THE country that despises the working class perhaps more than anyone. You want the struggle for change and improvement but do you really want the change and improvement itself? A thing such as the "House of Lords" still existing a couple of years post-French revolution suggests a society where people lose out every f***ing time, and some of it must be self-imposed, confused self-harm.

And yet you sit in your flat eating pizza and posting on foreign football forums. Great way to rebel.

And btw if you are going to attach blame on the British people for a couple of hundred years of colonialism, perhaps you should apply the same logic to your Viking countrymen? All nations have at some point victimised or taken advantage of others or allowed such situations to exist in their own nation. Humans are inherently flawed.

Do I blame the British people? No more than I blame the dog that bites - the fault comes down to the owner.

The owner tells you to go to Iraq and find weapons of mass destruction. None are found and years later it is revealed that the oil companies lobbied for the war.
Your boys die in unnecessary battle, the owner gets richer. Same as with the dog: it gets a lethal injection. The owner? Just gets himself a new dog.

I apply the exact same logic to Swedes, though not the Vikings as they are not relevant any more (none of the hierarchical structures/institutions etc. exist from those days). You're not going to find many who are as knowledgeable and open about Swedish atrocities as I am. Like the Swiss, we operate mainly by proxy, led by the most powerful family in Europe, abusing every situation we can - and often make it look like we're the good guys. If you study the hidden sides of Swedish history and society, you will find that we are the undisputed masters of using and abusing people in horrible situations all over the world.

But just like you don't understand that someone got you in their pockets, we generally don't understand it either, because humans are indeed, as you say, inherently flawed.

 

[BadFish]

No problems with Jews in general. Why would I?

Not surprised a lot of people here run in to defend Zionist (and non-Zionist) bankers, transnational business owners and imperialists as you've spent several centuries carrying out looting, raping, killing and colonialising all over the world on their command.

Jesus, Live by the Sea has been busy. How old is he?

 

[Live by the sea]

No problems with Jews in general. Why would I?

Not surprised a lot of people here run in to defend Zionist (and non-Zionist) bankers, transnational business owners and imperialists as you've spent several centuries carrying out looting, raping, killing and colonialising all over the world on their command.

On their command !!!! You need help …. I can’t believe you’re not banned - you really should be . You are well over the threshold .

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Of course everyone should loath antisemitism. Ridiculing or killing people because of their ethnic heritage is... very simply wrong. The problem is that the word antisemitism is used for too many things and in too many contexts, making it a very useful word if you want to rule & divide.

Britain is known to be THE working class country. It is also known as THE country that despises the working class perhaps more than anyone. You want the struggle for change and improvement but do you really want the change and improvement itself? A thing such as the "House of Lords" still existing a couple of years post-French revolution suggests a society where people lose out every f***ing time, and some of it must be self-imposed, confused self-harm.



Do I blame the British people? No more than I blame the dog that bites - the fault comes down to the owner.

The owner tells you to go to Iraq and find weapons of mass destruction. None are found and years later it is revealed that the oil companies lobbied for the war.
Your boys die in unnecessary battle, the owner gets richer. Same as with the dog: it gets a lethal injection. The owner? Just gets himself a new dog.

I apply the exact same logic to Swedes, though not the Vikings as they are not relevant any more (none of the hierarchical structures/institutions etc. exist from those days). You're not going to find many who are as knowledgeable and open about Swedish atrocities as I am. Like the Swiss, we operate mainly by proxy, led by the most powerful family in Europe, abusing every situation we can - and often make it look like we're the good guys. If you study the hidden sides of Swedish history and society, you will find that we are the undisputed masters of using and abusing people in horrible situations all over the world.

But just like you don't understand that someone got you in their pockets, we generally don't understand it either, because humans are indeed, as you say, inherently flawed.

I think your language sometimes lets you down on a thread like this. Your reply to me was much more balanced than the mini rant you made which I responded to. I wasn't blaming you for having Viking blood, in any case the English are apparently by latest estimates 6% Viking, but more to highlight the futility of picking on a nation as we are all in the mire. However you would maybe win more friends and more importantly receive more consideration for your point of view were you to speak in a more kind and respectful way. I agree we are all part of a 'machine', one which we have little or no control over. But I don't particularly believe in conspiracy stuff as there is no need to make things up as the truth is extraordinary enough.

 

[Live by the sea]

While the noses are indeed silly, stupid, primitive propaganda, it wasn't the reason why the Germans went nazi:
economic turmoil in combination with Jewish wealth (0.95% of the population was Jewish in 1910; 30% of the 30 families owning more than 50 million marks were Jewish).

When the economy went to hell, people did not like to starve while they also noticed that some Jews were very rich and held 80% of the leading positions on the Berlin stock market.

There was no need for the dumb nose thing. All Hitler had to was to a) point at economical facts and b) tell the people that they would be richer and happier without the Jews.

What the desperate Germans failed to acknowledge was that most of the difference was down to a few percent of the Jews being very, very wealthy rather than every Jew being richer than every non-Jew. That is one of the most important takings from the Nazi Germany/WW2 era; you can't blame an entire people for the wrongdoings and greed of a few families.

You're also right about the 'New World Order' - it doesn't exist. The world order is very old with the same financial dynasties remaining the most powerful and wealthy for a century or more. It'll keep being that way as anyone who dares suggests a different distribution of wealth and power will inevitably be labelled either a communist, antisemite, or one of the other labels used to make sure that only politicians that allow the global oligopol to remain in place are available for selection in our "democracies".

It works great. Most people are sheep and just buy into it.

The only way to end real antisemitism is to remove the power from the oligopol that mainly consists of European-heritage people and Jews. That way the average Jew (and the average Euro-American for that matter) won't be hated by pretty much every poor person in every poor country.

What the f@uk are you talking about !

 

[BadFish]

You have to hand it to Swanny, he gets what he wants and wrings it all out of these threads.

Don't forget how young and passionate he is about his new found wisdom. We were all there once and coupled with youthful arrogance and the fire of righteous is insight Swanny has chosen us to be the recipients of his glorious message.

To be fair it is an odd choice as I am sure there are more, ahem, specialist websites for this kind of thing.

The fact that he has moved from pointing out the anti semitism is used by some to conflate and discourage discussion around Israel and the 1% to openly defending tropes that have long been agreed to be antisemitic should surely be put down to the folly of youth. He's obviously off on one at the moment.

 

[aolstudios]

You have to hand it to Swanny, he gets what he wants and wrings it all out of these threads.

Don't forget how young and and passionate he is about his new found wisdom. We were all there once and coupled with youthful arrogance and the fire of righteous is insight Swanny has chosen us to be the recipients of his glorious message.

To be fair it is an odd choice as I am sure there are more, ahem, specialist websites for this kind of thing.

The fact that he has moved from pointing out the anti semitism is used by some to conflate and discourage discussion around Israel and the 1% to openly defending tropes that have long been agreed to be antisemitic should surely be put down to the folly of youth. He's obviously off on one at the moment.

Off on a racist one, certainly...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You have to hand it to Swanny, he gets what he wants and wrings it all out of these threads.

Don't forget how young and and passionate he is about his new found wisdom. We were all there once and coupled with youthful arrogance and the fire of righteous is insight Swanny has chosen us to be the recipients of his glorious message.

To be fair it is an odd choice as I am sure there are more, ahem, specialist websites for this kind of thing.

The fact that he has moved from pointing out the anti semitism is used by some to conflate and discourage discussion around Israel and the 1% to openly defending tropes that have long been agreed to be antisemitic should surely be put down to the folly of youth. He's obviously off on one at the moment.

I remember being passionately in favour of my new-found throbbing erection.

 

[Weststander]

You have to hand it to Swanny, he gets what he wants and wrings it all out of these threads.

Don't forget how young and and passionate he is about his new found wisdom. We were all there once and coupled with youthful arrogance and the fire of righteous is insight Swanny has chosen us to be the recipients of his glorious message.

To be fair it is an odd choice as I am sure there are more, ahem, specialist websites for this kind of thing.

The fact that he has moved from pointing out the anti semitism is used by some to conflate and discourage discussion around Israel and the 1% to openly defending tropes that have long been agreed to be antisemitic should surely be put down to the folly of youth. He's obviously off on one at the moment.

The tropes and glib throw away comments about why some inter-war Germans wanted to murder jews are at best lazy, at worst disgusting. On a deliberate mission, fuelled by mischievous modern writers, to make all roads lead back to world Jews, to derail this thread about Corbyn.

People are lucky that @Bozza and the mods are so accommodating.